Nickelodeon Unveils Creative Talent For 2022 Transformers Show

SPLIT LIP

One could argue it was more likely a marketing tool, separate from the creator's own bias because red/white/blue American heroes sell.

But would you consider this on the same level as someone intentionally adding messages into their work?

My issue with the idea that all work is political regardless of intention is you're basically forcing a level of accountability onto the creators they never asked for or intended. It also, as I said, grievously diminishes the efforts of those who do intentionally politicize their works because now their efforts are put on the same level as a Freudian slip. Is Transformers now the same war allegory as something as direct and overt as Gundam? Something that actually depicted war in the Middle East as well as rather blatant metaphors and social commentary?

It's also just too broad and messy to really deconstruct when you approach media form the conclusion that it has a political message, rather than reaching that conclusion case-by-case. As pointed above, what is the political message of Optimus Prime's colours and alt mode? Is it a subconscious inclination to pro-America imagery, or an attempt at broad marketing appeal because of the popularity of that imagery? Perhaps neither, and the colour combination is just the default contrast of primary colours that is most visually appealing, especially to children, and the truck alt mode is merely the logical choice of the available moulds to represent the leader as the largest character given the decision to make most of the heroes cars was largely the inverse of the more generic idea that the villains would be weapons and devices? Without knowing the creators' intent it becomes impossible to choose any of these three possibilities as the correct interpretation, and assuming all three are valid more or less nulls the notion of political intent. And even accepting one of those three options, is that the same level as something with direct allegories and intent?

And that's the key word: intent. Judging people, and I mean that not as condemning or praise but merely coming to conclusions, for the works they produce based on perceived intent rather than actual intent seems unfair and counter-productive. It also distracts from the actual merit and intent if you're focused on applying your own appraisal in spite of it. Transformers was never meant to be political, and any allegories gleaned from it are unintentional or coincidental and merely a product of their time. But people can not be judged by hindsight for things they couldn't possibly be aware of at the time of creating. Even the notion that everything is political is itself a staple of modern times and our looking back and over-analyzing all media with a bias that there must be political meaning.

You bring up a lot of good points. I definitely think there's a difference between intentionally adding messages and being influenced by current events. Like how Tolkien didn't write Lord of the Rings to be an allegory for World War 2, but some of that imagery made it into the books just by virtue of Tolkien having served in World War 2, and that influencing his worldview.

I also agree that people can read way too much into stuff. I think most political messages in Transformers are surface-level at best, and that there's almost surely no deep agenda or hidden message in it. Although I don't think it's unfair to the creators to look for that sort of stuff, as long as we keep in mind that it may not have been the intent. I think all art and entertainment is worth analyzing, and even unintentional things can be fun to read into as long as it's done as more of a thought experiment.

I've always assumed Optimus' color scheme stemmed from the classic superhero look, which in itself is supposed to represent traditional American values. My guess is that they picked a toy that looked heroic to be the leader, and they partially perceived it as heroic because it had superhero colors. Obviously I could be totally wrong, but I think that's a reasonable assumption. Even if they did it for commercial purposes, it's likely they were still playing into a trope that's inherently political. Using political imagery for profit is still political. Unless they picked the toy by some entirely random means.

CannonBlaster

I don’t know how this thread became about politics in Transformers but I would say it’s okay to touch political themes as long as it’s handled well

Technically this site has rules against discussing politics, but I see this conversation as more about themes and messages in art than arguing about personal politics (at least, that's the side of things I'm trying to focus on). If this discussion qualifies as something that's against the site's rules, I'll be more than happy to drop it.

T-Hybrid

Oh yeah for sure.

I was thinking more like how classic sitcoms would show married couples sleeping in separate beds. Because if they didn't the implications was they "slept together."

I don't recall which sitcom was the first to show the couple in the same bed.

You know, I honest to God think it was The Addams Family.

B-Fox

No Transformers cartoon will ever be good until Hasbro gives Trigger carte blanche to make a show of their own.

Like I said in a different thread:

Studio Trigger or we riot.

Gordon_4

If you can attach a political lean to that, its probably just a desire to see where the line is.

Which is itself political. You're toeing the line, and in time doing that enough ends up moving the "edge" of what is acceptable.

Rodimus Prime

Because "all art is political" which means KISS Players is actually a pretty deep take on the sustainability of the Japanese population via reproduction.  

Seriously, though, someone off handily said something like "please don't be overtly political" and a dozen or so responses of
View attachment 29349769
Later, here we are.

You mean the same KISS Players revolving around a war on alien terror waged by a country paranoid about being used as a playground for foreign forces?

T-Hybrid

View attachment 29349760

You can't tell a story about war without being political. Because the things both sides fight for are representative of what the creators think are "good" or "evil."

What they think will make readers root for the heroes or hate the villains is also a reflection on what they think audiences want. As artists will also sometimes make stories that appeal to the politics of the audience.

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octobotimus

This is pretty ironic considering anyone who doesn’t like it is painted as evil…

View attachment 29349760

You can't tell a story about war without being political. Because the things both sides fight for are representative of what the creators think are "good" or "evil."

What they think will make readers root for the heroes or hate the villains is also a reflection on what they think audiences want. As artists will also sometimes make stories that appeal to the politics of the audience.

CannonBlaster

I don’t know how this thread became about politics in Transformers but I would say it’s okay to touch political themes as long as it’s handled well

Because "all art is political" which means KISS Players is actually a pretty deep take on the sustainability of the Japanese population via reproduction.  

Seriously, though, someone off handily said something like "please don't be overtly political" and a dozen or so responses of
View attachment 29349769
Later, here we are.

Hobbes-timus Prime

Okay. I don't know what the Redditors have to do with the discussion, though.

Because that's where stupid as hell takes usually originate.

Preposterous

People say that "all art is inherently political" because politics go hand-in-hand with culture and you cannot have art without culture. Take a story with a woman as a an active and independent protagonist and show it to a culture which considers women inferior and "obviously" subservient to men. Suddenly something that seemingly wasn't political originally, becomes very political. Now consider that it doesn't even have to be a foreign culture that is exposed to a story or any other art piece, but technically the same culture, but in a different period of time. I can guarantee that some old people were upset about the Sunbow cartoon and cosidered it too political, it's just that these sort of things had harder time circulating back then.

That is where applicability vs allegory comes in.