Direct from Toy Fair 2019, we have images of the new Transformers Masterpiece figures. On display are
- MP-43 Megatron (Beast Wars) – Showing off an incredible finishing.
- MP-44 Optimus Prime Ver 3.0 – Two Gray prototypes on display, one for each mode.
- MP-45 Bumblebee Ver 2.0 – On display in robot mode with Spike figurine on his shoulders.
- MP-17+ Prowl – Both modes on display.
- MP-20+ Wheeljack – New redeco in cartoon-accurate colors.
RetroElectro
Ah very interesting. Yeah I guess my use of it is based on how it kind of evolved into a negative term for describing leftover toy bits. But you got me looking up tfwiki. It seems it originally started out describing combiner parts and then evolved into describing any of the alt mode showing up on the bot… according to a fan (Domelen?) from the usenet days. This Beast Wars era definition is an all encompassing use of it
It means pieces of the alternate mode (Beast mode, vehicle mode) being not only visible, but actually hanging off the robot body. IE the Doors hanging off of Prowl's shoulders, and the Crab Legs/Claws on Rampage's robot mode. They are not part of an anthropomorphic robot, hence they are kibble. (<1[email protected]>, 9 Nov 1999)
Now this is where I think that definition runs into head canon and why it probably gets stuck in FIRRIB territory. I don't think we have a good reference for what every character's "anthropomorphic robot" looks like. I don't know about other fiction, but the G1 cartoon had the core characters looking exactly the same on Cybertron before they got scanned on earth so to me those character models are their true robot forms. In my head, I can think that Teletraan 1's sky probe purposely looked for earth vehicles that closely matched their robot forms. SO the example used in the 90's definition above (going by my head canon) is not a good one because Prowl already had door wings …I mean robotic wing-like shapes
… when he was sitting in the Ark.
lordcryotek
I always defined kibble as: robot bits in alt mode or alt mode bits in bot mode. Some kibble just happens to be acceptable because it makes the character look cooler, like the Cheetah head on Cheetor's chest or Starscream's wings. Some examples of bad kibble: visible fists or faces in alt mode, figures with their entire alt mode on their back (like Armada Blurr), shellformers (see: a lot of BW figures). Kibble is anything in one mode leftover from the other mode that keeps a mode from being a convincing depiction of whatever it's trying to depict. In some cases, kibble from a toy just becomes an accepted part of a character design, it usually only becomes an issue when a toy deviates from a show.
Digger
Precisely. The only thing that changes it is the context with and what you have to the subject.
jackisking
Exactly, they look to accomplish 2 different goals. In such a competitive market everyone has to have their own thing. The thing is the baseline are articulation,accessories, and accuracy, everything else is what your shtick is to attract customers. In this case, not only is it Evangelion it's premium as hell down to the coating. With Transformers it's all that other stuff with innovative and fun transformation.
Digger
Right yeah. But you’re getting very different things in that specific example.
Treadshot 2.0
See that's the opposite of how I understand it. "kibble" (which is a phrase that I believe was coined by Dave Van Domelen back in the Alt.Toys.Transformers days) refers to any pieces of obvious altmode on the robot. It doesn't have anything to do with whether it should be there or not, just whether it is. (I suspect that's why it has never become much of a lighting rod as a phrase)
So the door-wings of Jazz, Prowl, etc. are unequivocally kibble… the questions of whether ithe kibble looks good or is accurate are totally separate. Many fans prefer TF aesthetics that incorporate kibble tastefully but prominently so the character's altmode is suggested in their vehicle mode; others like 'magic' transformations (like some of the 3rd party versions of latter Bayverse movie characters) where pretty much every identifying characteristic of the vehicle mode disappears in robot mode. Both approaches have their merits.
jackisking
I think his point was in comparison with that market the price isn't obscene as people make it.
Digger
Lol yeah I just made it up. They’re just kinda similar but not really comparable.
oku
This guy gets it.
God Orion
Ok, got it now!
Booster Gold
He's paraphrasing the expression "comparing apples with oranges" but choosing things that are more similar, implying that it's a close comparison but not quite the same thing….I think?
God Orion
Oh didn't know the expression sorry.
Sam
Caesium salami and beryllium baloney, guys.
Booster Gold
He saying it's not a completly fair comparison.i think? Which in some way it isn't and in some ways it is. I'd argue that Eva figure, although expensive, is more reasonably priced than MP-44 but I've already done so to some extent, many of my reasons are subjective and those that are objective will fall on deaf ears.
God Orion
Excuse me?
jackisking
Waters wet, the night is dark, and collecting Japanese lines is expensive. Think that covers it
Digger
Grapes and almonds.
God Orion
Wow, I guess MP44 is just a start and it's quite a deal-breaker then!