Based on the plans shared by both Hasbro and Paramount, a solo Bumblebee spin-off movie was slated to release in 2018 following the 2017 Transformers: The Last Knight. 2019 was to treat fans with Transformers 6 for a total 3-Year Back-To-Back Transformers Movies.
… and we have new info!
Deadline Hollywood, known for its exclusive (and accurate) scoops, is revealing that the Bumblebee Spinoff Movie Script is finalized and ready to be made into a movie. Paramount is now looking for new directors to work on the project.
“Paramount Pictures is getting closer to liftoff on Bumblebee, the first spinoff of its billion dollar Transformers franchise, this one based on a popular character in the series. The studio finally has a script it’s sweet on, and will shortly go out to directors. This comes after Paramount and Michael Bay assembled a “writers room” constructed of his scribes who fleshed out the Hasbro universe. A late addition to that program, Christina Hodson, is the scribe who cracked the spinoff and turned in a script that will make it possible for Paramount to mount the film for 2018. Hodson was one of two female writers (Lindsey Beer was the other) who joined a group of male scribes in the writers room in summer 2015, as they set out to hatch ideas to expand the mythology of the universe.”
Check out more info at Deadline Hollywood.
Bumblebee spinoff movie is to hit theaters on June 8th, 2018.
Livingdeaddan
I'm trying to think how we can steer this back to the Bee movie, without seeming to obvious about it.
Yeah, we should really hook up on youtube someday!
I think you're giving me too much credit. Quite often it's very likely that i've simply missed the point entirely.
Livingdeaddan
Yeah I can agree with you there. using "soft" as a prefix for pretty much anything renders the following word irrelevant! Soft Ice is not ice, soft
porn is just chicks in pants, and soft rock is something i don't know what but most definitely not rock , and it's an oxymoron.
I can agree with a lot of that, there's a lot of stuff in AOE i like, or at least accept, things that caught my attention in ways 2 and 3 failed to. But the basic construction of the movie is not so far removed. My first "same old shit moment" was when we were denied the fight between Op and Lockdown, and instead we spent most of the time in the car listening to the movies only genuinely shit character suck his own dick. Up until then i was
really onboard. Even with the silly dialogue.
But trust me, as much as I understand its flaws, I really don't have the appetite to dismantle AOE, and I hope TLK builds on its merits.
Language!
Hazekiah
Haha, I always play nice. OMG the shit I'd say otherwise…
That said, allegedly "in good humor" or not, you self-admittedly quite often "poke the bear," as you say, and frequently seem to ignore the point ACTUALLY being made simply for the sake of allowing yourself a false-opening to do so.
Your most recent post being yet another sterling example.
I wasn't "accepting no less than three criticisms of a TF movie," I was refuting them with the obvious explanations.
There's obviously only so much CGI money to go around per movie, so if people want more 'bot time onscreen then they're going to have to accept that certain "cheats" will be involved. It's the same reason some transformations have ALWAYS taken place largely (and sometimes entirely) offscreen, since the very first film.
And, again, Transformium explains the rest, and IN CONTINUITY, no less.
Livingdeaddan
Hey come on, be nice. Everything I wrote was in good humour. Right, now I'll go back and read the rest of your post…
…
Weren't what? Hard to explain? OMFG, explainable or not, are you actually accepting no less than 3 criticisms of a TF movie in single sentence!! What a day!
Hazekiah
Typical, irrelevant, shit-stirring snark aside, I will now address the REST of your post.
Except they weren't.
"Transformium" and whiny fans clamoring for "more robot screentime!" pretty much covers it.
It was producer Lorenzo di Bonaventura who first mentioned used the term for the post-trilogy films, if memory serves.
And Bay rightly corrected him, because it wasn't a reboot. Which is where the "soft-" element comes in, except its still a stupid term.
Hence, this discussion.
And it WASN'T really "the same old shit." As you and Bay both noted, it was indeed a "different style," with more humanoid Transformers, a single parent as the primary human character, Optimus seeking to abandon Earth, kill a human, "The Rules Have Changed," the Knighthood Theme in overdrive, a non-Decepticon bounty hunter and even lethally-aggressive human as antagonists, new musical collaborators, and HELL we even finally got the Dinobots and the first promise of a REAL origin story for the Transformers themselves!
It was definitely several different dynamics at work with the fourth film.
As I already mentioned, none of the human cast was returning and it WAS the fourth film in a series.
And a producer telling paparazzi that the fourth movie is a "soft-reboot" in an on-the-spot, offhand comment is HARDLY a "sudden panic," ffs.
Livingdeaddan
Yeah no doubt, but in AOE the lack of Transformations for several characters, bodies that don't look they do transform, and the aging terribly cubeformer effect, were all changes that were hard to explain.
I don't remember exactly where the soft reboot talk even came from, from what i do remember, it was the producers or Paramount that first touted it, then Bay started talking about how it would be different in style to the trilogy, then the media jumped all over it and started calling it a "soft reboot." I feel that was intentional tactics on behalf of Paramount to get people's interest back, or woo new people. Then after it got out of hand, bay did start to state in interviews that it was definitely not a reboot. Perhaps worried about the backlash when people saw it was just the "same old shit", to turn a phrase…
Just as well really, there's not much to know!
Yeah i guess. It's easy to be put of a movie sequel if you feel you're entering in halfway through the story. But Transformers are pretty much separate stories anyway, so why the sudden panic with AOE?
Hazekiah
I would clarify that Bumblebee is definitely still functioning as a scout, even past the first film, even without having been explicitly referred to as one yet.
Yes, he was undeniably scouting out Earth in the hunt for the AllSpark during the first film.
But then in the second and third films he was still on the forefront of the team's objectives. He played a BIG part in finding the Matrix and, to a lesser but still proactively forward mobilizing degree, also played an important role in helping Sam & Simmons uncover what was going on with the Pillars on the Moon.
But, even more directly to the point of Bumblebee being a scout, I would direct your attention to the Autobots infiltration of KSI. Who is it they send in first? Yep, that's Bumblebee the scout.
Firstly, you somehow managed to quote my post under someone else's name.
What I was referencing was the ever-increasing downtime devoted to the Transformers onscreen which shows them in non-combat situations, fleshing out their characters apart from them simply being warriors, which the first movie didn't really have that much of due to budgetary constraints, mystique, etc.
But even the first film still had moments dedicated to the service of expanding on them as "living, thinking machines." We saw 'Bee bonding with Sam and trying to help hook him up with Mikaela, his temper tantrum and ego when Mikaela insulted his alt. mode, his surrendering to torture and experimentation rather than harming humans, the introduction of the whole team in the alley when they each got to show off key personality traits (along with further character moments at Sam's house), etc.
And that's the movie with the LEAST noncombat, character scenes!
Later installments also brought us the bickering of the Twins, an exploration of the leadership structure of the Autobots and N.E.S.T., the leadership dynamics of the Decepticons aboard the Nemesis, Sam and Bumblebee's talk about college, Prime's lecture to Sam about leadership and responsibility, 'Bee talking Sam down from turning himself in, the moment Sam shared with the Primes, etc. And then on to the THIRD film with Wheelie & Brains hanging out and watching TV and taking offense at being treated like pets, later even helping to rally the troops and earn respect by turning the tide of the battle, Sam and 'Bee reconnecting and hanging out, the Autobots training troops at N.E.S.T. HQ, their meeting with Mearing, Prime meeting Buzz Aldrin, the Decepticons convening in Africa, Optimus and Sentinel discussing the war and leadership, etc., etc., etc.
And THAT is just the stuff from the first three films that leaps to mind immediately and which I feel like typing out for you right now.
The point is that there are PLENTY of scenes showing the Autobots (and even a few with the Decepticons) as being more than just warriors. Would I like to see more? SURE! And I'd argue that that's exactly what we've gotten with each successive film.
Likewise, if you want to really harp on the point about Transformer character DEVELOPMENT beyond simple, one-note archetypes, I point you again to the earlier points about Optimus and they depth and range of his character explored in TF:AoE. Same goes for Bumblebee in that film, too. He was always just kind of vicariously young through his bonding with Sam, but hearing him actually compared to a child by Drift, seeing more of his temper tantrums, and Optimus bonding with Cade over the irresponsibility of their "children" really develops 'Bee to a greater degree by pinning it all on HIM.
More to the point of this thread in general, I expect that we'll see a GREAT deal more character development in Bumblebee's spin-off movie since he'll likely be pretty much the only Autobot involved and will probably be struggling with his newfound status as Knight, perhaps even as a leader again. The movies have only gotten better and better on the point of character development for the key characters so I see no reason to expect that trend to not continue.
I wouldn't agree with any of that, nor are you paraphrasing me accurately.
The CGI has always been top-of-the-line, even with what few glitches and errors there are sprinkled throughout the entire series.
And acknowledging the fact that the human cast has completely changed between the third and fourth films while the narrative continues forward without them, and therefore calling it a "soft-reboot," is NOT the same as "pushing it under false pretenses" or anything being "broken," ffs.
By the same token, every single film in the franchise to date could be called a "soft-reboot." At no point do you ever REALLY need to know anything about any of the characters, for any given installment, that each individual film doesn't make sure you know within the first 20 or so minutes.
These films are consistently audience-friendly and making sure people know that the fourth film is STILL a good starting point is no different.
BumblebeeFan71
I will agree with you that there needs to be more fleshing out on the Transformers part. Which is why I said that Age of Extinction was a step in the right direction because if you compare the other films, most of the Transformers got one signal trait and they ran with it. But with Crosshairs, Drift, Hound, and Brains, we got a bit more of a expanded horizon in terms of character hence why when I mention TLK I say many times "Hopefully Bay continues the improvement he has been making." I'm happy with what we got because it was an improvement to the previous films concerning the Transformers characters. That is why I want to see more improvement, I gave examples of the progress made this far. Though before you ask, I counted Ironhide since he did get character development so he was only a past example.
I would be glad to continue debating this, I tend to like to hear second opinions and sometimes I get surprised.
Actually yes, but not quite with words. Prime's struggle is actually a very good example of the "show, don't tell" rule in writing. It has to do with comparing with how Optimus acted in each of the films. You'll notice that there is a slow decline that tests the limits of Optimus' morals. I would label DotM to AoE as Optimus' breaking point and that is because of two factors, Sentinel Prime and the humans. Optimus trusted Sentinel Prime as well as admired and respected him; when Sentinel betrayed the Autobots, it flew in the face of what Optimus stood for. But he did manage to stand by his morals, still believing the humans were worth fighting for. But the betrayal left Optimus shaken. When the humans betrayed the Autobots and began hunting and killing them, Optimus was angry. The beings he had stood by time and time, protected from those who threatened to kill them had turned against them despite the fact they did all they could to insure they live. It was at that point Optimus tossed away his morals, deciding to not save humanity for once and let them suffer the consequences. But fortunately Cade was able to restore those morals and showed Optimus that there were still humans worth protecting, leading him to go off to face his creators to insure they would not harm Earth.
I'll admit that was my mistake, I guess I still remember the more… I'm going to say younger Bumblebee that I forget that he's not a Scout anymore.
Well an example would be how he questioned why they needed to save the humans and the fact he stated how he and the rest of the Autobots weren't happy about the fact that the Government was hiding facts from them and hadn't revealed all of their Cybertronian discoveries.
I had honestly forgotten about that moment. I guess to reword it properly, he's the kindest when it comes to how he treats his teammates. Well now that I think about it, that could be debatable considering Drift doesn't really lash out unless angered such as when Bumblebee tried to fight him for his comments and when Hound suggested cramming a grenade down his throat. So I guess maybe Drift really is the kindest out of the four.
Oh I guess you are right, the movie never did make mention. Hopefully something they'll fix in the future.
Optimus' decision to abandon humanity and leave them to suffer for their consequences. He was the only one that wasn't on board with the plan to leave the humans to die, evident by the fact he intercepted Joshua's transmission and pointed out how they could easily get to China with the ship. But he never objected to Optimus' orders since he did wait for Optimus to give the orders to go to China.
I wouldn't completely say that, at least for the ship's part. My dad when he was still alive served in the navy when I was very young; he was part of the ship's engineer crew, aka a mechanic. As a engineer he was required to know the ship's workings in case of repair and to insure everything runs smoothly. So Crosshairs having knowledge of a ships workings and traps could indicate that he has had experience with ships before. Though I will admit I can't say this with certainty since I am speculating on traits that I noticed he possessed.
Really? I hadn't watched the movie in a while so my memory was admittedly fuzzy.
I wouldn't say they were just things they just did. Sometimes actions can reveal one's thoughts and type of personality. It's part of the "show, don't tell" rule in writing. Not all actions though can reveal this though which is why it must be balanced out with dialogues and interactions. AoE has taken a step in the right directions since we did get some interactions. Though not that many since they saved most of those for either the humans or the scenes with Cade and Optimus. Hopefully we continue to get more of these interactions, one of them that desperately needs it is with Bumblebee and Hot Rod since they are suppose to be Brothers in Arms but we will need moments and development to show this and not simply be told and expect to believe it.
SPLIT LIP
Thing is, all these traits either come from other media, or are directly tied to combat. I'm talking about interests, relationships, how they react to things, how they interperate things. Things that make them more than just robots, which is what they honestly feel like except Bumblebee, who has been established to be vain, somewhat egotistical, and rash in his decisions. The fact that these brief synopsis can be called their entire character history is a bit of a problem. They're less example of a character's personality and more like you just listing every thing they've done as if that counts.
Where is this ever stated or explored in the movies? Prime's violence and aggression are treated as nothing abnormal, with not a single living being in the movies ever once acknowledging his brutal executions. There is no moral struggle, Optimus is treated as though he is in the right 100% of the time.
Has he ever been refered to as a scout? He's clearly a warrior like the rest. The only scouting he did was in movie one.
Does he? He didn't like Sam's parents because they made his job difficult, and didn't like having guns pointed at him. How does that make him wary of all humans?
Ummm… huh? He was easily the most violent. Unless you think killing a defenceless creature because it's ugly is kind. (at least Drift thought he was being attacked when he killed the tentacle thing)
A fact never once stated in the movies themselves.
Refresh my memory, but when did this happen?
Which, again, falls under "combat." Only reaffirms my issue with all the Autobtos being ruled entirely by fighting and killing.
Something else we were also never told in the movies.
Except, no, none of that is character development. It's either surface-level character traits, or just descriptions of things they did. None of that developed them except Optimus, but his development was pretty damn basic.
Sablebot
I agree-and here's an article, that though old, still applies, in my opinion:
What Michael Bay can learn from Transformers: Prime | CliqueClack
And some others:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ap…sformers-films/amp/?client=ms-android-verizon
The Ten Things That Might Make a Better Transformers Movie. – Articles – DVDActive
10 Things That Could Save The Transformers Movies
https://www.google.com/amp/moviepilot.com/posts/3805187/amp?client=ms-android-verizon
The Transformers Live-Action Movies, as they should have been.
BeePrime_WFCTX_106023
Awesome Bumblebeefan71
BumblebeeFan71
I can give you a list though the detail of description does depend on how developed the Transformers are. AOE is a step in the right direction but hopeful Bay keeps up the improvement and we get more development.
Optimus Prime (obviously the easy one) – A leader who has suffered from both betrayal and the tragedies of war. He struggles to hold onto his morals and his continuously slips beyond his breaking point, resulting in him being a more aggressive warrior. He lost faith in humanity after they betrayed them; killing and melting down many of his comrades and friends. But fortunately one human he managed to bond with showed him the reason why humanity is still worth protecting. Out of all the Autobots, Optimus is actually quite close to Bumblebee and finds that Bumblebee is like a son to him.
Bumblebee – A young scout that can talk but he plays up the mute act. (Admittedly it is fun to do.) But while he tends to be mischievous and reckless, he is also brave and willing to step up to responsibility. Though he gets angry when others don't trust his choices since they see him as a child.
Ironhide – A tough soldier that has a love for guns. He is quite loyal to the Autobot cause. He seems wary of humans but tolerates them even when they make a choice that infuriates him.
Hound – At first glance he's just like Ironhide but thanks to character development he grows into his own character. Hound was the soldier who loved guns and grenades, he possible might be considered the kindness of the dirty four in comparison. Usually when his teammates got into fights, he would break it up. But that's not to say he doesn't get into fights since he will bicker sometimes with his teammates. Hound in the beginning has a strong hatred of humans, commenting on how Optimus' vow to never kill a human was a mistake. But after spending time with Cade, Tessa, and Shane his hatred began to turn into care. He still hated the humans that betrayed them, but he had now grown to care for the humans willing to help, even going so far to almost lose his life to keep them protected until help arrived. Besides Bumblebee, Hound arguable is possible the most loyal to Optimus. He'll even insure that his teammates are willing to help, especially Crosshairs.
Drift – A former Decepticon turned Autobot. Drift tends to try to be peaceful but sometimes slips into his more violent personality. He refers to Optimus as his sensei which is Japanese term for teacher, showing that he turns toward Optimus for learning. This is further adding on when they reunited, Drift brought up to Optimus how he felt Bumblebee made foolish and reckless decisions as the leader and shouldn't have taken on the responsibility since he considered him a child. But while Drift carries huge amount of respect for Optimus, he doesn't quite agree with all the choices the Autobot leader makes, but due to his respect he never objects them. Unlike his comrades, Drift doesn't actually hate the humans for their deeds. Instead he pities them for the choices and actions they made. Because of this he was more willing to help Cade and his family.
Crosshairs – An Autobot who prefers to look out more for himself than others. Crosshairs would prefer more to be alone, even taking glee at the though of his comrades taking each other out so there would be no one left to give him orders but him. He was even willing to abandon Optimus until convinced otherwise by Hound with the help of a gun. But dispite his loyalty issues, Crosshairs admits that he can't help but follow Optimus into battle by him noting "Ugh you just wanna die for the guy. That's leadership. Or brainwashing, or something." Crosshairs possible has the strongest disliking toward humans and it's unclear if his feelings have change. But it is clear he at least tolerates Cade and his family. Crosshairs also shown signs of being a bit of a gun expert and knowledgable about the workings of a ships. This is evident by him growing frustrated when Bumblebee wasn't able to shoot down enough jets before putting him in the piloy's seat to take out a good number of them himself. There's also the fact how much knowledge he had of the knightship, knowing what traps to lock for, what circuit to look for to release the anchors, and even managed to locate and pilot one of the jets.
Brains – Decepticon turned Autobot, Brains was friends with another Decepticon turned Autobot named Wheelie. He was an intelligent transformer that was able to gather amount of information but he disliked being disrespected. After he was taken by KSI, Brains discovered that Megatron was still alive when he picked up brain readings. But out of bitterness and anger for what the humans had down and the fact they shocked him whenever he called them out on his actions, Brains decided to let the humans suffer the consequences of their actions and helped KSI create Galvatron.
That's about all I can list. They are other Autobots that had more defined personalities but they weren't fleshed out very much, even when they appeared in multiple films. Before AOE Optimus, Ironhide, and Bumblebee seemed to be only transformers that got some sort of character development. Megatron is too early to say but we may finally get some character development with him in TLK since so far it's been the whole taking over with tiny amounts of character development like in DotM and maybe AoE.
So looking at my list I managed to list 7 Transformers that got some character development in the films. Which is definitely an improvement over the previous number of 3.
SPLIT LIP
They're also intelligent robots that can think and feel.
But they haven't. At all. Describe to me, using evidence, the Autobots personalities outside of what was shown during combat.
It will be a short list.
Ash from Carolina
Soft reboot doesn't really fit well. It's more a continuation with some new characters involved and some of the character we knew moved out of the story. It seems like you need some time between stories to get an actual soft reboot so when Disney launches it's new Pirate movie it's been enough years to call it a soft reboot. Even with Fast Five going in a very different direction for that franchise it's something hard to call a soft reboot.
I guess a real world comparison would be going from World War II to the Cold War. The leaders might have changed, who's a world power and who is not might have changed but it's all part of the same world history. We want a name for the big shifts to a narrative, but English is one of those languages that lacks a proper term. Not really helped by films, books, comic books, and television having all these ideas for what you call the shifts.
Wolf
Not sure on this yet….I get a feeling it will be like marmite and may get mixed reviews…unless it's a full on epic adventure and not a generic boy grows into unassuming hero type flick then I'm game!!
jame5y
How about an 80s centric movie – it seems like Bee was here way before the other bots, it would be ace to see a really cool period movie which could help straddle the 'we hate the movies' and 'we love the cartoon' divide
Livingdeaddan
I think you're about right there, but there's still no denying that at the marketing point, Bay and Paramount were pushing AOE under the false pretense that it was in some way a reboot, of some consistency or other.
Probably, as you say, partly to cover up for damage done to the cybertronian character line up, non returning cast, and also the shift toward patchy cg.
Seems broke to me!
Hazekiah
Seriously?
Mostly because Shia didn't want to sign on for any more films and because most of the Decepticons were dead.
It's pretty much only a "reboot" insofar as the cast was pretty heavily overhauled between the 3rd and 4th films. But it still follows the same continuity so it's not REALLY a reboot, obviously. Hence, "soft reboot."
Which is a stupid term for it, of course. But it gets the idea across, fwiw.
Livingdeaddan
So then why the AOE "soft reboot?"
Hazekiah
I believe the colloquial expression would be, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Maybe? I wouldn't know, I haven't had a chance to read it yet. But I'm looking forward to it!
No spoilers, plz.
Stinger leaps to mind, along with not-officially-named-onscreen KSI-'cons like Two-Head, for instance.
And a major plot point of the film was Megatron's revival as Galvatron and his manipulation of KSI affording him a new army of Decepticons after they were seemingly all killed off in the previous film. Not to mention an entirely NEW threat in the form of Lockdown and The Creators.
Your point, such as it is, rings hollow at best.
Crosshairs doesn't HAVE to be like his G1 iteration, there are PLENTY of original ideas in the films, that wasn't my point, what I said, and I'm assuming you know that, the Witwicky's were in 3 out of 4 movies so far, ffs. You WERE talking about how the movies "didn't feel like Transformers," so the point stands regardless of whether or not the Witwickys return. Their presence has certainly been strong, regardless.
No, I have no problem with differing opinions…but I certainly don't mind discussing WHY I disagree myself. My point was that these movies are positively LADEN with core elements, concepts, and characters from throughout ALL iterations of the franchise. With that in mind, I can't help but see the opinion that they "still don't feel like Transformers" to be nothing more than stubborn contrarianism.
An opinion with which anyone is of course free to disagree. But I'll put my extensive laundry list of core elements, concepts, and characters from the entire franchise which were included throughout the movies up against some vague, wishy-washy, unsupported "feelings" any day.
It's not a matter of narcissism or ego, it's simply evidence supporting my perspective vs. well, nothing really supporting theirs beyond "feelings," lol.
My entire class read it in grade school, actually. And I've seen two film adaptations since then, fwiw.
Your point in mentioning it seems to be that the movies are awful and we're all just pretending they're not for the sake of saving face after being scammed, a position with which I heartily disagree.
How that suggests to you that I've never read the book is beyond me.
Saved me a lot of time there, thanks. And well said!
Also, in case you missed it, Drift and Hound are actually mislabeled as one another when KSI is tracking them from above, lol.
Dun goof'd!
XD
I don't know…the whole Beast Wars thing recently had its own season of TF: Prime, leading up to its cancellation, and even a follow-up movie, not to mention the whole concept essentially carrying over to TF:RiD. That's PLENTY for me, but then I was never too big a fan of the idea in the first place.
I'm still open to the idea though and the same goes for a Lockdown spin-off, obviously.
🙂
Also very well said, thanks.
As you pointed out, I think a lot of the hate from fans towards these movies is basically just a closed-minded, slavish adherence to and utter dismissal of anything not conforming 100% to their own fan-fic ideas and preconceived notions of what SHOULD have been. Sometimes people just need to relax and see what happens, they'd probably be surprised by how much fun they might have simply letting the filmmakers tell the story THEY want to tell.
Well, they are warriors in an intergalactic conflict, after all. I think the movies have done a good job showing that they have fun and bond and just kinda hang out and talk here there, all things considered. Especially as the CGI budget has steadily increased to allow for more content like that.
I'm always ready for MORE of that, though! And I fully expect we'll continue to get more of that in keeping with the continued upward trend towards that effect as the movies progress.