TFW2005’s early Transformers comic reviews continue! Today, we review Robots in Disguise #20! Robots in Disguise #20 is out tomorrow – Wednesday, August 7th – from IDW Publishing. Check out the review and a seven-page preview on our Robots in Disguise #20 page of our Comics Resource Section!
Murasame
When I read all IDW comics in one go it made a better experience for me as well. I noticed that I forgot about some things that are important later in the story, because it is months later when things finally become important. When you read everything in one go… it's possibly only a few hours ago *g*
I started reading the comics relatively late when most of the spotlights were already out. I think maybe 2 or 3 years ago.
WilyMech
I agree. I think the prophecy is always misinterperted however I think the fact Starscream is uniting people but not the way he imagines.
solarstorm
I recently purchased a 64 gb micro sd for my tablet and filled it with 55 gb of comics. Over a few nights, I reread AHM, The ongoing, MTMTE, and RID recently.
When you read AHM and the ongoing in one go it actually makes a decent whole. I enjoyed it much more than when it was being released monthly. It's probably in part because there were serious "writing for the trade" decompression issues. Some character issues along the way, but not so bad. Especially when you see a few points early in the ongoing + AHM that foreshadowed events and turns in Chaos, MTMTE, and RID.
*The Bumblebee and Ironhide mini-series are still trash. While I like the character, I wish Ironhide was still dead.*
As for the current stuff – I like the emphasis Starscream has gotten. I can't wait until we see him as the warrior/ruler in the Armada body. Like the titan said…he's going to be the conqueror. I don't think the titan was talking about his current position as leader of Iacon.
SMOG
Not to mention Prime quitting, Bumblebee's ascension to leadership, and the continued Autobot presence on Earth were all examples of a hammered plot over actual character direction. Things need to happen to facilitate Costa's plot, so they happen… rather than seeming to grow out of any authentic character motivation or direction.
About the only exception to that is the Thundercracker stuff, as you say.
zmog
Jalaguy
Yeah, I cannot agree with the notion that MTMTE is a plot-driven comic. I mean, the entire Overlord business didn't happen for plot reasons, it happened as a vehicle for character interaction. Before Remain in Light, the most recent plot-for-the-sake-of-plot was in Shadowplay, and that was a flashback mostly unrelated to modern day events.
I also cannot fathom in what way the ongoing was character-driven. I'd say the only bits that examine character interaction or development in any way were the Thundercracker stuff and Roberts' Chaos Theory. The rest of it, in my opinion, boils down to "The Decepticons are doing a Thing! We better go stop that Thing!"
SMOG
I disagree with this. There is a lot of snappy banter, but it does not make all the characters sound the same… their personalities are still distinct and often inherent in their dialogue or particular senses of humour. Having the large cast of charactes is what makes MTMTE work, as opposed to what hurts it… as long as those characters are given space to develop. I like a good talky comic, and MTMTE proves that comics don't have to be all about action.
This is a legit complaint, especially very recently. However, I would argue that this is the problem with rushed resolutions in general, so I think both titles fall prey to this problem.
I don't think that's right. RID is plenty driven by plot… as nonsensical as it gets sometimes, and the character relations are very much what pushes MTMTE forward… for the first year and a half, the hunt for the Knights of Cybertron has been little more than a conceit… a Mcguffin to provide space for the character interactions.
I have to call you this… I disagree about Costa's run, and I think your theory is an extremely problematic generalization… but whether it was character-driven or plot-driven, the essential point here is EXECUTION… I don't think TF fans liked Costa's run very much because it wasn't very good.
You raise a good point there… Transformers characters already have a long history, and fans will have their opinions about how they would or wouldn't behave. It does make them tricky characters to write for, since the big names always bring old associations to the table.
However, I wouldn't want to use that argument as a crutch, as it applies pretty universally. Not only are serial mediums like comics and television reliant on ongoing established characterizations that move through various writers, but even with characters that do not already have an identifiable pre-existing persona, you still have two important requirements…
1. they should be consistent… lots of shows have episodes where their characters are written in erratic, inconsistent ways, and it hurts the show. Dr. Baltar on Battlestar Galactica was one such example… in the early seasons he was HORRIBLY written. He had a different motivation and personality in almost every single episode. Maybe this means I'm a snob, but that show was pretty overrated in my opinion. It did get a bit better later on though…
2. they should be interesting. This does not necessarily mean the need to be likeable, but they do need to capture our imagination. We do need to be excited about them, and involved in their personal narratives.
This is where I find RID Starscream has faltered… the ONLY changes he has gone through are purely external. Things have happened TO him, but in terms of his character, outlook, motivation, etc… he is really no different than he was in RID #1. He hasn't grown, and after nigh on two years, that gets kind of tiresome.
zmog
Scaldron
Pretty sure this is it.
Burningsirius
Starscream is a hard character to write for and also people have to understand that many times MTMTE becomes too busy. All the characters start sounding the same because Roberts cannot help but make everyone witty and the plot lines become anti-climactic because they resolve themselves in 3 panels after issues of build up. So, MTMTE is not without its flaws. I wouldn't say RID is simpler but less nuanced. There is a lot of characterization going on and this is a character driven story (MTMTE is a plot driven story with interesting characters along for the ride). I feel that as I read the comics forum, that the TF community really doesn't like character based stories (Costa's run comes to mind but others too) but they really like interesting plots (Last Stand of the Wreckers and MTMTE). I think its because we already assume so much about a character, especially Starscream, that we don't like it when his character is probed because it ruins our image of him or we feel it is not needed because, what isn't there no to Starscream, hey everyone knows what he would do in 'x' situation. That is how I feel anyway.
WilyMech
I thought it will be on the 18 and MTMTE is on 25th….
Maverick Hunter Christian
Can anybody speak to when issue #21 will be out?
Thought it was supposed to be out last week, doesn't appear to be on the docket for this week. Granted, the narrows the window of possibility down quite a bit, but I tried searching all around for an updated release schedule and couldn't come up with anything.
khopson
I've been working with a Canadian publishing company since 2010. I've published several stories/books with them (recently contracted two new manuscripts). I typically write in the sci-fi, dark fiction/horror, and crime fiction genres. I'd love to do some fanfiction stuff, but I've yet to experiment with that.
ss4steve
You know I sat down and I watched 4 hours of old G1 Transformers season 1 and 2 yesterday just for kicks.
I enjoyed it greatly due to the nostalgia and childhood memories those episodes produce.
Having said that, while I simply adore the series, it also has its place. Much of it is poorly designed, poorly written, terribly executed, and edited on a level lacking of professionalism.
I think RID characterizes a lot of things that I like in a comics about giant alien robots from my childhood.
However, it IS written at a juvenile level devoid of real imaginative content…..
….so what if it is Fryguy? You can still enjoy it for the exact reasons Smog does not.
SMOG
It happens. I've been there too.
I think it seems that way, but it may be something different. In most of your comments, the way you approach your estimation of the series is by describing the action, the progress of events, what 'happens'… while it may seem like we're addressing the same points, I think my critiques are more aimed at the tone and the execution. It's a distinction that I often see in storytelling… content and style. Both are important, but different people have different priorities.
It's like Shakespeare… when a fight scene pops up, the stage directions are generally "they fight". For the plot of the play, it's only important that the fight happens, and that there is a set outcome. For the experience of the audience, that fight should excite and enthrall them, and make them love or hate the characters.
For you, it seems as though at the end of the story, you can say "Starscream gets ahead by crooked dealings, despite interference. All progresses as it should." I get to the end of the story thinking "I wasn't caught up in the personal interactions of the characters, so I remain unconvinced and dissatisfied with the events".
Maybe that's an oversimplification, but that feels like the difference in approach here.
While for me, it's the exact opposite. When I read RID, I'm only more acutely aware of the relative lack of excitement and stimulation I experience compared to MTMTE. It always leaves me cold.
zmog
fryguy81
Ugh, I hate when I get embroiled in something and I cross that line between passion and emotional to the point where I lose the detachment that one needs when they debate or discuss. It's a rarity that that happens to me but it does happen. I always end up regretting it everytime.
But again on your points, the main thing is point of view. The very things that you use as your argument on why you dislike this book are the very same reasons I like it. It makes it very hard to discuss fully, because what can I use to point out why?
you write too? Anything I can read (looking to put some fan fiction up on here eventually).
I agree with you on MTMTE being a reason why I like the direction and tone of RID. I need a Transformers book that is a different spice to that one.
khopson
I hear ya, Fryguy. Given how complex MTMTE can be (which I love btw), I enjoy that RID is a little more toned down. If RID was like MTMTE, I think my head would explode. Being a writer myself (can't shut my brain off most of the time), some evenings I just want to relax and not have to think too much after a mentally exhausting day. As a result, RID offers a nice balance IMO. Complex characters and story lines can be great, but simplicity can be just as effective to the right reader. As a writer, you can NEVER please everyone. That's why you're taught not to write for others but, instead, to write for yourself. You obviously have to have a target audience in mind, but you write for the love of the craft and hope that some readers will see this in your writing.
SMOG
I'm sorry if you're taking it that way… I'm not saying it to insult you in any way; I'm saying it because it's true. This dialog and interaction in this series is very close to what I see in Transformers: Prime. I don't diss people for enjoying things for kids… I've certainly enjoyed things that fall into that category (Avatar:The Last Airbender being a good example), but I don't try to hide or deny or embellish that fact with trumped up praise. I am critical even of things I love, and also I sometimes suspend my critical faculties in my enjoyment of things… but I do so with some degree of awareness.
You've said you enjoy it many times here. That's fine. I haven't taken issue with that, nor would I. We like what we like, and relative quality is no more a determinant than a host of other factors. What I have done is disagree with your defense of the series on other more specific or rational grounds. I'm sorry that you're taking that personally, but you shouldn't.
Cheer up, chum. You know I'm just a curmudgeon by nature… we may not agree, but you have to be at least as patient with my criticism of this series as I would be of your praise. Which is to say, I don't mind disagreeing with you or debating it… but don't get bent out of shape about it. I mean, if you were John Barber, I'd understand if you were a bit insulted… but you're not, right?
There is a whole range of sensation and affect that contributes to the charm of a story (film, comic, TV, whatever)… sometimes that simplicity or universality is a boon (My Neighbor Totoro, for example). However, I think that spiritually, I must disagree with your point that a "well written comic" is "something for everyone". I think that's an artificial metric, that can often be more of a compromise than a benefit.
By trying to appeal to "everyone", you can end up diluted, and missing your mark. In fact, trying consciously to write for a "child demographic" can also lead you to underestimate that audience. Transformers comics are a small market, but I think that trying to play simultaneously to adult and child sensibilities would be a mistake.
Not that I think Barber is doing that on purpose… which is all the more sad.
zmog
fryguy81
This, this right here is why I'm done discussing this. This is about the third time you have said this exact same thing. There are ways to critique a work without insulting it and I take it as an insult to myself as well.
Because the implication is that if it's written for a 10 year old's sophistication and I enjoy it then I'm an idiot. Sorry it's not Joyce Carol Oates or Yates.
But I am an educated man and I enjoy it. I find it to be everything you do not. I find that it walks that line of being something that kids will enjoy and still maintain a sophisticated enough plot and characters to entice and entertain an adult.
And in the end, a comic that is well written is supposed to do that: Be something for everyone.
SMOG
I think that this is an interesting spin to put on this Starscream… though really, Starscream has spent way more time in various fictions being a failure, so I honestly feel like we need to see him be competent for a while just to remind us who he's supposed to be. If the guy was genuinely smart and charismatic and pulling strings right and left, and still failing utterly, or full of uncertainty, or screwing himself over… that could actually generate some real pathos. This cartoon melodrama… not so much.
I think that a more adroit writer could have pushed this angle more fruitfully. As always, god is in the details.
zmog
Kakashi
In my opinion, this issue represents perfectly who IDW Screamer has become. He's a bot who's trying to change and leave the past behind, but he has a crippling lack of charisma, so the game he chooses to play forces him back to his old tricks. And he is such a freaking attention whore, tearing down Scoop for doing good deeds that he should've been doing (or at least organizing) because he can't stand the limelight not to be on him.
His character is such a wreck. And that's who he is. You can see this plainly as he tries to justify himself to Metalhawk's corpse. And in his own mind he IS completely justified.
I just can't believe he saved Wheeljack only to draw him into this little game. And calling him friend? Talk about a kiss of death…