Pete@BotCon dropped by to let us know that the TCC Club Exclusives Nightbeat and the Seacons pre-order pages will be up in the next 7-10 days. They are currently getting everything setup, and will e-mail club members as soon as the pages are ready. The prices for these are $48 for Nightbeat w/ comic, and $119 for the Seacons. For the full run-down, head to the Club’s site. To discuss this topic, click the DISCUSS button below.
The Constructicon
Hey, only a villain from the '80s could pull those colors off.
If anything they're nostalgic, the new scheme looks all sorts of random.
Synical
Sorry, I just found that funny, wether or not it was a joke. Although I don't much care for this color scheme, the original was hardly beautiful or classic in anyway, it looked like a dayglo disaster. God Neptune blows them both away except for the lack of Nautilator and is cheaper I believe.
The Constructicon
What's the deal with the funky color scheme for the Seacons?
I'd have shelled out the monies if it were the classic teal/pink/purple theme.
Mightion
I don't know what price I expected for the Seacons… at one point I naively thought around $80… but after all the waiting and various signs of hope over the years, I will gladly pay the $120 for these. I was kinda hoping $120 was the non-member price.
I'd need to see shots of these new "paint apps" before I decide whether or not to get Reprolabels Piranacon labels for them…
airfox
I'll get Nightbeat as soon as the preorder is listed. It's around the price of Airazor plus it comes with a comic.
The Seacons OTOH – while not super-expensive as I expected around $100 – would hit me with extra customs taxes here, so I'll have to pass. Hopefully, there would be still Seacons sets available next year at Botcon for me to buy.
-airfox
Galaxy Convoy
You're probably right there. Takara is undoubtedly aiming for maximum, or at least decent profit from the TF products they manufacture. And making something that they can't get any use out of themselves probably doesn't sit well with them, hence gouging FP to "make up for it". It could also be possible that Takara could care less about a US convention and feels that doing very limited runs of stuff for it as a burden or pain in the ass.
I've got to say though, if FP has been getting hosed by Takara all this time, then I am truly surprised they've continued to get as many exclusives made as they do every year.
Sidecutter
I've gotten the feeling from Brian more than once that the ONLY reason some things got made at all was because Hasbro basically put their foot down and said it was going to happen.
It really does seem suicidal, in fact, for Takara-TOMY, a company with KNOWN money problems several times in the past, to turn down these runs. We know that at least once, Hasbro's interest has been what bailed them out of complete failure. We also know that Transformers aren't as popular as they could be in Japan, and don't sell spectacularly most of the time – often enough they've struggled to continue there. Given all that, I would think any smart businessperson would leap at the opportinity to do something, even a small special run, where they are guaranteed profit like they are with the FunPub work.
G.B. Blackrock
Indeed, the fact that Takara does this on their own all the time is one of the reasons I was seeking an alternative explanation. But if FP isn't the one negotiating with Takara, well, I frankly expect better of Takara's relations with Hasbro….
Laser_Optimus
Yeah, I work in retail so I understand that concept wholeheartedly. I'm just saying that Hasbro is obviously taking a hit on those kinds of exclusives and either are loosing money by pricing them like they are or aren't being charged as much as FP are for smaller production runs.
More or less, but it still doesn't explain their animosity towards doing runs for Botcon or the TFCC now does it? You can't complain that something isn't profitable if you're doing the same thing no matter where the budget for it is coming from.
stad
Well, it really depends on the purpose the store has for the exclusive. Often they are promotional items, and may take a loss simply to drive traffic into the stores. (SW Order 66, TF 2 packs) Sometimes the exclusives are considerably more expensive (SW Clone Wars Gunship).
I would say the lucky draws and one shots are more of a promotional tool than anything else, and any loss would likely come out of a marketing budget, not the main toyline.
Laser_Optimus
Yeah, we've heard of Takara's reluctance many many times from Brian and Glen. Each and every time it strikes me as rather funny that Takara would complain about it not being profitable, but they make crazy one shots or ten shot LUCKY DRAWS! Some of which have to be more expensive to produce due to the use of chromed out parts than anything that Botcon has ever done (except, perhaps, remolded parts).
Personally, what I think it boils down to on their end is that it's not something that Takara can use for their market without tweaking them (such as Henkei Thundercracker) and thus have no interest in it, because than it becomes more difficult if they want to do something similar. But we're not just talking about the US either… it's also probably the reason why there were only ever two Japanese Botcon exclusives. Hell, does Japan even have a Botcon anymore?
Kenucme
Funny that Takara is resistant on the production of Exclusives. I look at the exclusives that Takara produce, namely the LUCKY DRAW figures.
All of them may be a repaint, but so are the Seacons and Nightbeat.
Sidecutter
While this is possible, bear in mind that Brian and Co. are dealing with Hasbro in fact, and Hasbro is the one dealing with Takara to get it done. Hasbro, of course, knows how to do it, but it seems with things like the conventions they push back for reasons unknown. I believe Brian said they were griping about it being unprofitable.
But if that is actually Takara's complaint here, it's totally shot in the foot by the way they constantly put out small run special releases and exclusives through their own partners in Japan. They must be doing it at some kind of loss, too, because those exclusive runs tend to run at or only slightly above retail cost, which means the margins for Takara must be razor-thin or nonexistant. And some of those have production runs between 1-5% of the lowest runs (~1000 normally) FunPub asks for. Some of them even only see a single piece released (regardless of the fact that quite a few are undoubtedly made).
G.B. Blackrock
This is pure speculation on my part, but living in Southern California, we have a perspective on multi-cultural relations (especially in regard to Western and Asian cultures) that isn't always common elsewhere. With that backdrop, I can't help but wonder if there are some cultural issues at play when dealing with Takara that Brian and company is simply ill-equipped to handle, but which folks at Hasbro may understand better. This would be in addition to and beyond the "pull" that Hasbro can exercise (that FP can't) simply by virtue of being a larger company.
Sidecutter
If I may chime in, we have been told, for a fact (I'm inclined to believe Brian on this), that Takara does NOT want to make their exclusives, and is actually quite resistant to the idea. They are, according to Brian, very argumentative and difficult about making these smaller runs, even when the small runs we're talking about are the relatively large runs of the Convention and member exclusive toys.
This is seconded by the information Glen Hallit gave us in the past. The Mega-SCF mold Skywarp toy we were supposed to get as the first club bonus toy from them was intended to be made in the high hundreds of pieces. One of the things that got him in trouble was that Takara then backed out and insisted that he had to order 6,000 or more, which is when they suddently became widely available to retailers and others to order from 3H without club membership being a requirement.
I don't know if they give Hasbro that kind of grief about limited goodies, but they sure give it to the convention/club crews, and have been for a while it seems (6+ years since Skywarp was announced at the dinner party…). I believe, but will not say for sure, that Brian told us one of the problems with that resistance from Takara is that they have to pay them more per figure than they would otherwise in order to get Takara to do it. So they're not just paying costs + normal profit margin (which is higher than retail releases no matter what), but effectively having to grease the palms of the executives as well.
nkelsch
Cool page, I bet that took some solid research to compile. Looks very thorough.
G.B. Blackrock
Heh, heh. I'm quite familiar with that page. It's mine.
Laser_Optimus
Like others have stated. I think you're grossly underestimating how many mass retail figures get produced for Hasbro. When you factor every that every figures shows up in multiple waves and that many stores get each wave in many many times… well, I don't have numbers for you because anything I stated would be pulled out of my ass, but I would bet that it's much greater than the numbers that FP produces their figures in.
On the issue of Energon Treadbolt, Rapid Run & Ultra Magnus… I would hazard a guess (I don't think any of us actually work in the buisness so it's all conjecture) that Hasbro can get major reductions on the stuff that they produce to the amount of buisness that they do. I'm sure that FP can't say the same.
Honestly, I don't work in the buisness so I can only speculate and tell you what has been stated on such matters. The fact is if that Pete comes on here and says something (and I'll be the first to admit that he's good at 'damage control' as that's been a complaint of mine about information we recieve from FP for awhile) I see no reason to ever believe that he's been untruthful in anything that he's ever said. So, if he says that price of production doesn't change between 1,000 or 10,000 units I'm rather inclind to believe him. Like I stated… it's very possible that Hasbro doesn't get charged as much for their smaller production runs simply because of the vast quantities they do on everything else (ie: discounts due to all their larger orders and such). It's also worth a note that any store exclusive figure has a smaller run and in most cases these repaints sell for a cheaper price than their regular retail versions (ie: Target two pack of a voyager and deluxe sold at the voyager price). Really, I don't pretend to have the answers, but their is enough information to make an educated guess.
Also, like I stated before… I'm sure that the collector oriented packaging also has something to do with FP's costs as it's sure not to be all in the production.
permie
That's fair, in general I don't think people try to "pull anything over" either, but it's easy to rationalize "the way it is" if its the way you know how to do it, and everyone wants to make a living/be successful financially.
I found some data at the bottom of the thread; it relates more to botcon exclusives, but interesting read.
http://mysite.verizon.net/NicodemusLegend/datasheet.htm
G.B. Blackrock
In another thread, I made a comment about "working smarter, not harder." I have no doubt that FP is working their tails off. And, frankly, I don't think they're trying to pull anything over on anyone. I think they're doing as best as they can. Or, rather, as best as they know how. I can't help but think that there's a way to keep costs down while delivering a quality product that they haven't thought of.
However, that's not to say that I know what it is. It's only to say that I really do think they're not trying to deceive anyone here.