Boroughcon has recently had the opportunity to speak to Transformers More than Meets the Eye and Lost Light writer James Roberts.
This interview covers some interesting points for those who have been following the series. In particular, there is mention of what is in store immediately following the current “Dissolution” story arc, as well as some general information on James’ creative style.
Most interesting are the points about how the rebranding into Lost Light has changed things slightly. The new character of Anode was always intended to appear in “More than Meets the Eye Season 3”, but that story arc – the one immediately following The Dying of Light – would have originally focused on Getaway and the crew of the Lost Light, and their paths would have crossed that of Anode. With the relaunch and rebranding as Lost Light, the plot needed to be modified to be acceptable to new readers and resolve the cliffhanger ending of The Dying of Light earlier than originally planned – hence, Anode is now acting as an audience surrogate to help to introduce new readers to the wonderful world James Roberts has been crafting.
Check out the full interview for all this and more over at Boroughcon.
Optimax Prime
y' know what, i bet that Getaway lied about the Nudge gun thing and everyone he "talked to" was actually warming up to Megs, so in short, Getaway is a Hypno-Nazi-Hitler-Bot
SPLIT LIP
I think you're misunderstanding me. I was not asking, why is Getaway viewed as the bad guy. That's perfectly clear and it didn't need to be explaiend to me, I read the same comic you did.
My question was why the blind hatred? Why the seething, invested spite and anger towards a character who's a betetr villain with a more devious plan than Megatron himself? Would you be as angry if, say, Starscream had done this?
We should be revelling in an actual villain who's not just a megalomaniac or lazy sadistic jerkwad. Most villains in MTMTE are over-powered Gray-Stu's who are a threta simply becaus ethey can punch hard. They're never cunning, manipulative or charrismatic, they're just juvinile boogeymen. Getaway is everything Megatron should be, ironically, and you want to throw him away like a used tissue because… what, he threatened the life of the silly infant character who suddenly has magical powers? GOOD. That's what villains should be doing! Scheming and plotting and putting heroes in peril.
The only thing I hate about Getaway is that we didn't see more of him. Didn't have another issue after his betrayal that flashbacked to explore his growing disdain for Rodimus and Megatron. In a series where every character is stark black and white, even when they're not supposed to be, he's deliciously grey and nuanced. He's cunning, ruthless, manipulative, and yet ultimately is woring to towards a goal of justice. justice for all Megatron has killed, justice for all Rodimus has killed and risked the lives of, and justice towards those who willfully enable him to keep pointlessly risking the lives of those unboard. They're not right, but they're not wrong.
This ultimately brings up what frustrates me more and more about MTMTE and some of it's fans; it is becoming increasingly simplified and shallow and pretending to be deep. Megatron is not a conflicted, grey character. He's clearly a good guy but has some oh-so-tormented angst about being a villain. He's been totally domesticated save his one completely predictable, unsatisfying outburst in the finale where he mopped up last season's villains with ridiculous eye energy stuff. (I actually don't even remember how season two ended, because I only read it once and have completely forgotten it it was so unexciting) Rodimus has completely devolved into nonsense, having no signs of the regret and want to mature like he did in season one, just becoming a total buffoon. And everyone else is a total flatline at this point, all sharing in the overly-verbose witicisms.
And you have one character who is the perfect conflict to all of this, and could actually give real drama and contrast to this story, and you want him dealt with immediately because of a transparently manipulative plot where he sets up the cutesy-sidekick to die? It just seems… I dunno, there's words I want to use but they sound too harsh for what I mean and don't really fit. It's like some of the fans have "fallen for it" for lack of a better term. You're ignoring the bright side to such a coniving, deplorable character because you're angry at them. It's like wanting to kill off Walter White the moment he became a real bad guy just because he was bad. And I fully expect Roberts to do just that and toss aside this perfectly good, fascinating villain just because it's a meme to hate him.
It's like you've invested yourself too deep into the story when it can only be appreciated properly from the outside. It's like when people rightfully complain that there's not enough Decepticons in a toyline because villains don't sell, when you need villains to offer conflict, and you need different kinds of conflict so you're not resorting to the same old Overlord archtype virtually every Roberts villain besides, like, Pharma has been. And even Pharma is (was?) just a run-of-the-mill psycho, lacking only the super strength of your average Roberts big-bad. He was still the same gleefully evil smartmouth. Getaway is more like deluded evil, convinced he did the right thing, even when he kicked everyone out he did so assuming they'd merely be arrested. He doesn't think he's a villain despite being such an obvious villain.
He couldn't have done it himself, though. Getaway is a capable "adult" and a legitimate threat, Megatron attacking him or anyone else wouldn't have been shocking or deplorable enough to get Megatron kicked off. Megatron needed to "murder a baby" so to speak. Murder in self-defense of a genuine threat, especially when those in charge are seemingly pro-Megatron, is hardly the uproar he needed.
That's not really solving the problem though, that's just ignoring it. That means Megatron is still getting off without so much as a slap on the wrist. They weren't just opposed to Rodimus' leadership, as they had suffered with it so far. Megatron was what really caused the revolt. Also, the Lost Light is their home, don't forget. It's more logical to throw out the bad eggs than the whole basket.
Because politely agreeing is Rodimus' strong suit. And don't forget the last time he found out someone was doing the Knights quest independant of him, he threw a tantrum.
Because their friends are, in their minds, not friends at all. They're an omnicidal maniac, a child, and a fanclub for said maniac and child who are willfully ignorant of their faults.
I think it just says more to the mis-management of MTMTE season 2 that none of this was properly established and had to be conveyed after the fact. The crew slowly turning on them should've been seeded far, far earlier and devlepoed descreetly in the background. Instead it was handled with boxing gloves, and shoved aside for pointless filler.
Murasame
Best post on that matter. I haven't thought about it deeply enough like you did, because I usually trust my feelings about people, wether written or real and I'm usually right. But this sums it up perfectly. If Getaway acted like you proposed, I would not be against him, it would be understandable. But using others for his goals and endangering other fellow Autobots, wether intentional or not, is not the right thing to do. That's what makes the difference between a good and a bad person. A good person can even have bad thoughts, as long as you don't act like that. In the end this is the same that made Megatron a bad person. He had good intentions but acted wrong and boy how wrong. He used deception to further his goals like a true Decepticon. I meant Getaway btw.
Mr. Chaos
Simple:
Getaway sets himself up as 'the autobot doing what needs to be done'. Defends proclaim "Look at how evil Megatron is! Getaway is getting rid of a murderer! He is killing a monster! What's wrong with that?" And frankly I'd have no problem with that…
…if he'd done it himself.
Had Getaway gotten close to Megatron, acted as his friend, only to then stage the attack him in hopes of getting Megatron killed, knowing he would die in the process and be a martyr, I'd have no issues. Because he did the deed himself. He died for his cause. And frankly everything after that could still work in the story (he survives but is punished, betrays his friend Skids, so on). But he didn't do that, did he? Getaway instead took an innocent… someone who hadn't even fought in the war… and happily lied to him, seduced him, and sent him to his death. Because Getaway is a coward. He hides behind "I am such a hero! I do what others can't!" except it is real easy to claim that when you don't suffer the punishment.
There is an episode of MASH where they deal with this general. he is a big hero, always getting medals, a real legend. But Hawkeye discovers this guy sends his troops against the enemy in a needless battle for a spot of land that doesn't matter… just so he can report how he fought the good fight despite heavy loses (he caused), captured another spot of land, and he'd like another award please. He isn't the one shot at. He isn't the one dying. He sacrifices NOTHING… but claims he is the hero.
The same with Getaway. If he truly… truly believed in the cause, believed Megatron was evil and had to be stopped and was willing to do anything… he'd have strapped on that glove himself and done it. But he didn't, did he? Because like all good hollow-voiced, weak-willed, cowardly 'patriots' that beat their chest but scurry away and let others die in the name of THEIR VALUES… he didn't really believe in the cause. Not enough to risk himself, now did he? No… what he truly saw was a way to selfishly get what he wanted without sacrificing a damn thing.
Kill the little guy. Get the victory. Thank you, thank you, please worship me.
As for the crew itself… I detest them for a simple reason: If you were so mad about Megatron, so mad about Rodimus… get… off…the…damn… ship.
They were drydocked in Cybertron. Plenty of time to leave. There were bots who did. Hell, there are bots who left in SHUTTLES. Red Alert left while they were flying about the galaxy. They could have easily got their own ship, said "I'm sorry, friends, but we want to try this our way" and left. Instead they decided to maroon their friends and leave them at the mercy of a Council of Aliens that hate Cybertronians and hope for the friggin' best? So the arguements that they had no choice? Don't fly one bit. THey had plenty of damn choices… here… I'll write one now!
Perceptor states he is tired of being sidetracked in their quest. Several agree with them and when Rodimus is over at Swerve's he takes a photo of the map. He then politely goes to Rodimus and requests that the next time they land he and his group would like to leave, planning to have someone come with a shuttle. Rodimus agrees, they leave… and then get a ship of their own and go out to find the knights.
But instead they decided betraying their friends is the smart way to go. Because… reasons.
It would be like a group of us going to eat and you guys want to hit a movie first and pick up your drug dealer friend to hang out too. I am hungry but instead of getting a cab or, when we swing back at my apartment saying "I'm out" I steal your car and call a bunch of crooked cops and tell them "Hey, people to beat up and shoot on the corner of 5th and main!"
Either Roberts will reveal that they were lied to about the plan (my hope is that Getaway used Hardlight Holograms in the Rodimus message) or they are complete morons worthy of my scorn. And until I get a good reason… yeah, I want them to suffer. My fear is that it will go back to the ship and everything is hand-waved away and there is little to no backlash for anyone other than Getaway.
Optimax Prime
1. that fucking sucks
2. here's hoping
3. preaching to the choir
SPLIT LIP
Maybe instead of "the fans" I should've just said "fans" to not be so general towards eveyrone who likes MTMTE/LL, as I am well aware there are those who are less extreme.
Focksbot
Yes – I can't really think of a single time they soft-rebooted the continuity in a way that didn't involve carrying over major plot threads, and this latest one is the worst attempt yet. 'Optimus Prime' is surely incomprehensible as a jumping-on point – every other page involves a new rollcall of characters with invisible plot baggage, and the relationship between Autobots, humans, Decepticons and Colonists is complex to say the least.
Then you have Lost Light beginning on the resolution to a cliffhanger from More Than Meets The Eye and immediately booting half its cast into a parallel universe whose rules were set up in that previous series, and loads of characters just hanging around in the background.
I don't think it's quite that bad. For one thing, it's good storytelling practice to let characters move into supporting roles once their plot arc is completed, unless you have something new lined up for them. I actually think Roberts' writing suffers from the opposite problem – keeping around his popular characters without giving them anything much to do.
As for Anode, it's true that Roberts' description here doesn't make her stand out at all, but that might be a form of mid-interview inarticulacy. We all know Roberts' real strength in his character work, with a couple of exceptions, is in teasing out their history and the decisions they've made and will make. That's what makes them worth reading about. Only Whirl, Magnus and possible Swerve are enjoyable simply because of their personalities, or 'presence'. So to explain what makes Anode necessary at this juncture would be to give the game away, assuming there *is* more to her than the attitude.
Same position, overall. Great writers need great editors.
I think you're going rather too far here. Remember you're quoting a poster who also wants to see Perceptor and Blaster get comeuppance, and I don't think that's likely. The person you're replying to is well toward the extreme end of anti-Getaway reaction – plenty of us on the boards see his side of it as well, and I really don't think he fits the form of other Roberts villains. I hope and expect that we'll get more out of this than a revenge narrative.
AnomusPrime
I don't think any mortal person can judge anyone irredeemable. Whether a person has the potential to change for the better speaks to the fundamental values of their life, if not of humanity, and I don't think anyone has enough knowledge or authority to judge that. Besides, Megatron did not become a completely different character. He still did all the bad. Consequences like DJD was thrown in his face. It is just explained now how he became that bad. Being a person and doing horrible acts do not contradict each other. His character development makes a lot of senses to me. Much more senses than someone who is evil beyond reason.
We often need a larger than life representation of evil for us to feel conformable. But what even is evil? There is no such a thing that is evil itself. It's an umbrella concept that is too often taken at face value, almost magical, as if "evilness" can be used as an explaination. Every single person who became "evil" has a reason to be like that. There is no one who is magically just evil. I'm glad Megatron is no longer a symbol of such a detrimental concept.
AnomusPrime
I believe Getaway will be given a second chance when Rodimus catches him. Actually, we don't even need to wait for that. I don't understand why anyone would say that Getaway is without depth… Getaway who got thrown into the battlefield as basically an "infant", who talked about later gen MTO never got proper education, who JRo intended people to hate or side with? He already has plenty of depth right now.
That said, I too feel as if MTMTE/LL's handling of Megatron's redemption is not entirely satisfactory. It is mostly very good, makes a lot of sense, but just… a bit lacking in some aspect. Some said it was because different aspects of Megatron's character clashed without enough explanation, but I don't think so. These traits are not real contradictions, no real paradox in his personality development. But today I finally realized what it is that feels lacking: Shame!
I do not mean others shaming Megatron, that is not the problem here, but Megatron's own shame. Think about it: he just confronted how horrible he was during the war, how many death and pain he had caused. Shouldn't shame be a natural and strong reaction? Even a Major reaction? Especially since Megatron was supposed to take his responsibilities very seriously? But we didn't see much of his shame, only hints. And his speech recently sounded a bit too self-satisfied. It just doesn't sit right. Shouldn't he show some of his regrets and shame, alone with his determination to do the right thing? Even if he was very good at hiding it, shouldn't he be at least more reserved?
That is what feels unreal to me.
AnomusPrime
Getaway is a Megatron Parallel. I think that is on what is justice, one of the big topics in the comics. And i agree with the point: Revenge is not Justice, not even a part of it. I once read that justice should be for the betterment of people, which includes stoping crimes, preventing future crimes and reforming those who went down the wrong path. Revenge is none of that. Punishment is another thing, because it can serve two purpose: 1. to reform people 2. to deter future crimes. But seriously, it is only useful to deter lesser crimes/wrongdoings, like a fine for parking in the wrong place. I don't think someone like Megatron would be deterred by, say, even death sentence, and deliberate torture should never be lawful.
If someone, even the likes of Megatron, really wanted to change, even for all his crimes, I'd vote give him another chance. Only when someone who refuse to stop posing as a threat to others, and when there is no other way, should that person be put down, and that is for practical reason. So if Megatron was killed during the war, that would be just, but not now when he had reformed.
Shepard Prime
I did say "could."
Megatron saw at the end of Dark Cybertron a great many things, enough to make him see the error of his ways. But from then forward, it's been kind of an uphill battle for him to really embrace his change and imo he's shown in the actual series various times where he's come to be challenged about that.
It's also funny that you say that he was accepted far too smoothly and perfectly when Whirl attacks within the first couple of pages (as a part of a larger scheme no less) of his coming aboard not to mention that his being on-board is the direct result of the current mutiny that was apparently planned some time ago. Just about every character at one point or another has made some kind of comment about Megs halting the trial/sentencing, not wanting him there, and reminding him of what he's "supposed" to be atoning for (quotes because one of the characters actually–Ratchet I think–said exactly like that, implying he's not getting it and probably never will).
"Megatron can't be redeemed."
Can't he? You say and believe that but the fact that we're having this conversation to begin with just shows the premise has promise and Megs whole arc is based on that exact idea.
Personally, I think it's unrealistic for him to be redeemed but I do think it's realistic, after everything he's done, to want to try.
What do you mean by altered history, though? I wasn't quite sure what you meant there.
When we catch up to the LL, we'll see if he ends up as a straight forward baddie with no depth or not.
Both would be excellent, I could go with that.
Sometimes, I just think the book (be it as MtMtE or LL) gets thrown off by the constant crossovers. I love MtMtE/LL but I'd be lying if I said it hasn't been the same since post-Dark Cybertron. It's still good and I love it but the pacing has been jacked up and I can't figure out if it's the crossovers, the renumbering thing as he mentioned, or editorial (which it also feels like).
Murasame
I think infiltration. But I would need to look it up to be sure. But I need to get dressed for work now. Check tfwiki.net for infiltration
Wheeljack_Prime
"I wanted a driven, funny, independent, ebullient, cheeky new character, with a unique set of skills.”
He doesn't think he's pretty much overpopulated the book with that kind of character?
Man, makes you really wonder how he really perceives his comic.
Billzilla
Wow, it's kind of crazy to think that the cliffhanger effectively switched from "did the good guys die?" to "what happened to the betrayers?"
SPLIT LIP
Except it hasn't, because Megatron's development has been plodding and awkward ever since he first stepped foot on the Lost Light. His turn to good guy was way too sudden and absolute, and he was accepted into the crew far too smoothly and perfectly.
Thing is, Megatron can't be redeemed. Not the way they're doing it. He's just too evil and has done too much wrong, it's unrealistic that he's had the change of heart like he has, and there's no sense of self-awareness to it. He's become a completely different character with an altered history that doesn't jive with what he's actually done in IDW.
At least the Getaway plot would have to have some sort of development, either with the realization and regret over what he's done, or at least been a somewhat decent villain origin. At least he wouldn't be a villain charicature.
Hell, why not both? I feel like there could be this great dichotomy between Getaway's villainistic fall and Megatron's struggling redemtion. The two could've been an excellent contrast, but instead we needed "Personality ticks" and Swearth I guess.
AnomusPrime
I'd say go read tfwiki pages on IDW Megatron and Optimus Prime first. This way you'd have an idea of what happened. Then pick whichever books that interest you. There're a few must read imo:
Megatron Origin
Last Stand of the Wreckers
Transformers Ongoing 21-23 (then read 24,26,28,30 recounts on tfwiki in order to connect with what's next)
Death of Optimus Prime
Punishment, Redemption
All of MTMTE & ExRid, Windblade (these are very recent and you prolly don't want to miss anything. IMO they are all worth reading, even if there's some bumps alone the road.)
Then, of course: TAAO, Lost Light and Optimus Prime
BTW, my absolute favorite is Punishment/Redemption (and likely the coming Salvation in June), i.e. The Dinobots Trilogy. This series captures the spirit of idw tf comics since phase two. They also answered some problems people had been debating here. Honestly, if nothing else, read LSotR and these. They are dark, but delightful, honestly among the very best comics I've read, regardless of fandoms.
John TheDestroyer
Wow, thanks! I'm gonna screenshot your post so I can reference it as I'm shopping lol
Shepard Prime
I didn't say to avoid all plotlines of a particular type, I very much was typing what I myself preferred, which is the Megatron redemption story over the becoming what you fear story.
Further, by your own post, the Megatron redemption story could give us better character development for Megs as well as the story flip for Getaway could. It's really just your own preference, same as mine.
bman29
Yeah and I'm not sure Hot Rod fits that's role. He's getting more childish by the minute. Maybe Terminus will be that but he's been in the background. Ravage was that sort of.
I like the idea of giving characters a chance to change for the better, but the punishment should fit the crime. The idea of putting a redemption seeking Megs on a ship full of Autobots makes for interesting stories, but there should be a payoff and more inner turmoil amongst the ranks and no just wiping the slate clean. Getaway mustache twirling felt too much like the Joker to Batman, Hahaha catch me if you can moment. But the Joker can getaway(no pun intended) with that crap because he makes up for it with serious consequences. I just keep waiting to see if they switch Megatron back and what little progress he has made with the audience will be now I'm going to kill your puppies you've been having adventures with in front of you, much like Overlord getting loose in the first season. The series is just meandering too much and needs to refocus.
SPLIT LIP
Has it really?
Or should I say, has it more than the incredibly blunt and unremarkable "villain redemption" story?
And it's not about what has or hasn't been done to death. I never criticized anything for being unoriginal. It's what would work more in a story and give us the better character development. The notion that we should avoid perfectly servicable plotlines because they've "been done" is horsehockey because everything's been done. Just because it's original doesn't mean it'll work. It's why plotlines get repeated in fiction. A tool for every job, so to speak. Or rather, a path for every development, and I seriously believe this was the wrong path to go down.