TFW2005 boards member Deruji has shared with us a translation of a Future King Magazine interview with Takara desginer Hasui Shogo. The interview focuses on his work with the Unite Warriors Devastator and goes into a great amount of detail with the design process, the decision making, and the outcome.
We have mirrored the full translated interview after the jump. Enjoy the interview and please be sure to thank Deruji for his time and work that went into this translation for us to enjoy!
UW04
In Charge of the Development of the Overseas Version of Devastator
Hasui Shogo
Q: What were the details of having chosen Devastator as a large scale item this time?
A: The proposal was from Hasbro. They referred to it as “a kickass product”, because Metroplex, a project that many fans wished for to be realized as a super giant product, was popular, it came to be that Devastator was chosen as the second one. It was done due to the timing of the Combiner Wars series just being developed, and so the plan to try and turn it into a product to symbolize the Combiner Wars was advanced. In order to cover the correspondingly large sum investment, it seemed to have been a difficulty even for the Hasbro company to let such a plan be accepted.
Q: How did you decide on the size?
A: The height of the previous figure Metroplex, I considered the play value of combining and it was calculated that the size would have “a height of 45cm”. This height and “the fact that 6 Constructicons combine and turn into 1 robot”, “that it woulde be 6 newer and different types of construction machines” were the essential conditions from the Hasbro company. To clear these conditions, it was okay to disperse/vary the height of the disconnected robots , although the design before and after combining changed from the time of G1, it was good. But afterall apart from myself I thought about how the respected G1 Devastator configuration should be; then I proposed the current design. Because I thought this was the course of action that the fans strongly wished for. So, implementing this height of 45cm was accordingly difficult, for the combining process several I had to come up with several clever ideas.
Q: In total, this is considerably close to the G1 version, right?
A: Concerning the points that are designed based on the original G1 version, it’s constructed similar to a masterpiece (transformer). The toy of course incorporated elements of the anime design. In fact to clear the tight development schedule, there are parts where I apropriated ideas for use in an MP Devastator that I had written down a long time before. I thought: “doesn’t this seem like the only chance I can make a giant MP Devastator, if I do my best here then the thing that the fans eagerly waited for can be realized”. I had the sense that there was nothing like it before. If it surpassed a masterpiece wouldn’t that be terrible (smile).
Q: What is the charm of the character of Devastator from your(Hasui’s) point of view?
A: I think that he is a symbol of the strength of the Decepticons. Because the Constructicons combine and become the giant Devastator, an absolute power difference between the Autobots and the Decepticons is born. I think that the feeling of despair of the Autobots at that time is the charm of Devastator. Combining shook up the enemy side with the situation of the Autobots fighting against a giant enemy.
——–
Q: What were the points in development that troubled you?
A: Generally speaking the development schedule and parts count was strict, you know. Because making 6 voyager class (figures) rather than having prepared only a development schedule and parts count for making just 1 Metroplex (figure). Usually if you make one, an hypothesis is made for the mobility that every robot can use, the degree of mobility legs and arms move before and after. Generally, because there was no precedent for such a size of Transformers combiner, several things were quite difficult.
Q: For the modern combiner warriors multiple people were in charge, you (Hasui) alone were responsible for Devastator, right?
A: Yes. Because it was a product that if you did not make and look at the complete balance by yourself, you would never reach the goal. But, the advancement of 6 combiners at the same time was a continuous hardship which I had not experienced up to now.
Q: This time you turned surplus parts into weapons, right?
A: I was also able to construct it so that surplus parts got lost/disappeared, but if I did that the parts count and hinges would increase have and the cost would have risen. Still, at first due to making 6 (figures) and being at the limit, there was no spare room for making weapon parts. For that reason, to make them separate items at the time, I dared to propose to make a few parts into handheld weapons.
Q: In regards to the domestic version, there were some requested points from you (Hasui), I suppose.
A: Hisashi Yuki was responsible for the domestic version, he decided the specifications at the time, in the beginning he listened to/asked my opinions. Generally speaking for the foreign version, achieving the internal costs was number one, therefore he told me of opinions and ideas he held off on. Because his ideas were included there the final specifications of the domestic version were able to be made. The visor gimmick was Yuki’s idea, you know.
Q: What kind of itmes are you (Hasui) presently in charge of?
A: Currently I’m in the middle of being in charge of foreign items. Of the currently released some things from “Generations”, in “Adventure” I’m in charge of Big Bumblebee and Big Grimlock. For the extending gimmick in Big Bumblebee’s feet I took some hints from ‘Sky Garry’ (this thing: ‚b|‚R‚U‚O ƒXƒJƒCƒMƒƒƒŠ[). For Big Grimlock also generally__ I became aware of a different transformation, it became a product that specialized in a degree of satisfaction and sense of accomplishment according to the transformation. For these the concept of Kung-Fu like and somewhat flashy transformations, that made you look and be surprised was called “Trans-Fu”.
Q: Please let us hear the salespoint for Devastator as a developer.
A: For the domestic specifications I want the thought, that I wanted to focus on the separate characters, to reflect that. As separate items they are easy to play with, please experience the times they can turn into things that can be enjoyed. In any case I aimed to the last to produce the G1 image. I combined masterpiece and also scale, I aimed for a tall height that was bigger than Prowl and the others and smaller than Soundwave. After combining, in particular scenes the size was all over, but (smile) I combined the images and mixed together masterpiece and generations, if you can play with a Devastator that’s just as you like that’s enjoyable, right?
Bountyan
Yeah…I haven't been paying much more for Takara stuff compared to normal Canadian retail lately. Takara Devy is only going to cost me like $10-$20 more than TRU taking into account tax and shipping.
PoweredConvoy
With the discounts at most retailers, you can get TakaraTomy's close to the same price as Hasbro's before shipping.
Randy
ZapRowsdower
Well, Hasui himself says that they don't have such tight domestic budget constraints.
The Takara versions typically suffer from more expense, and they're also sold for 2-3 times more than Hasbro's toys.
It's somewhat more significant that Takara can sell TFs at all, at such high prices, and remain in business. Or maybe they've been losing money on the brand?
The point is that HASBRO is constantly cutting corners (now more than ever, I mean), and that means a lower quality product – i.e. Constructbots with no elbows and clip-on wheels.
Should we be grateful this was made at all? SURE! But that's a pretty piss-poor attitude for tossing $150+ on a luxury, non-necessity item like this. It may buck logic in some ways, but sometimes you're better off spending more and getting more, rather than settling on Hasbro's close-minded view that this toy should appeal to a large audience of disinterested consumers, rather than a core audience that would spend more on a better product. IMO, I mean!
Raiyuki
So it sort of feels like Hasui made this a not quite an Mp but still sort of MP. Aesthetically it does fit as all the Constructicons look like their G1 selves except Long Haul in bot mode (but he takes a number of cues) and Mixmaster in alt mode (though the longer drum benefits the combined mode). Anyway interesting how Yuki was the one who threw in ideas for improvements in their domestic release. Can't wait to get UW Devastar in December.
I'd love to know what other than your personal biases yield that fifteen year number. The overall quality of figures only starting dropping sharply starting with FOC and Hasbro only started stinging on paint arount TFPrime. That's about three years. Not the very random 15 year you claim.
Needless to say both companies are in buisness; from a buisness perspective therefore both companies seem to have overall done well with their markets.
AnonymousDwell
The most pertinent quote to me was:
And that is why I will stop at nothing to get the UW version of this. I really do suspect this is the closest we may ever get. It's not perfect. It's more than good enough for my needs, though.
Afterburner
It's easy to say that, but there are two things to note:
1. Companies are wrong ALL THE TIME, just as much if not more than they are right.
2. There is more than one way to skin a cat. There is plenty of demand, Hasbro braintrust just hasn't caught up with the market realities yet. TakaraTomy has been ahead of them on the curve for about 15 years now. Hence the constantly superior product and them still managing to *gasp* be in business.
Bountyan
MP
MegaDolrailer
What does that mean? which Prowl and Soundwave toys are we talking about?
merphul
No one is saying they should throw away money and forgo profits, but weapons are non-hinged and probably no assembly parts beyond popping them off the sprues. How many parts would weapons would taken? 1 per constructicon and maybe a larger gun for Devs himself unless you worked in a clever combining weapon design, so call it 10 tops assuming you had to assemble the weapon for Devvy. He had a transformation nailed down within their limit except for weapons, he nailed it!
"Still, at first due to making 6 (figures) and being at the limit, there was no spare room for making weapon parts."
So for the sake of staying in under their inflexibly set budget/part count, we lost out on what could have been a no partsforming transformation, which is always more impressive and appreciated due to the innovation of the engineering. Maybe the kids that is Hasbro's bread and butter don't care, but us adult fans do. And one day some of those kids, who frequent whatever the future's form of TFW2005 will be, will talk about how clever and awesome that Devvy they had as a kid was and appreciate the difference as well.
So did Hasui go to the Hasbro team and go, hey look I got this clever idea but we need to spend like a dollar more per unit and get shot down? Or maybe from previous experience he knew how obsessed they were with their budget figures and didn't even try. Call me crazy if I assume that businesses should always allow a little extra room in the budget in case things go unexpectedly, either because something goes wrong, or there's an opportunity for significant improvement at a reasonable cost.
Budget is important, it's always important, god knows Hastak doesn't make toys because they love us or think it'd be a great way to spend some time, but for budget to be explicitly called out as priority #1? It's not like Yuki sat there and thought, well shipping is so much cheaper between China vs the US (which it isn't by much on scale) and we think we'll sell more of them in our local market than Hasbro will in a much larger market (which I'd also say isn't something definitely or even strongly supported), so we can afford to blow the extra dollar or two on guns, paint, elbow joints and visors. Got no hard numbers on Hasbro vs TT production numbers, but I'm inclined to think that Hasbro produces in larger numbers than TT, and at some point cost per unit drops due to that scale, might even drop enough that the Hasbro per unit cost was close to or even below the TT per unit cost.
But that's all up in the air as none of us have hard stats. Point is that TT set a projected budget and profit margin for UW Devs and handed that to Yuki as he was put in charge of the Japanese design specs. Doesn't necessarily mean he made the final call on costs as he's a designer, not an accountant. But even if had the final say on costs in Japan, he talked to Hasui and saw how some simple ideas could add value to the toy at what was surely a reasonable cost, even added a couple changes of his own. Then he either approved the increased cost, or pushed the budget people to give him some flexibility by giving up a smidge of profit. If TT had the same budget first and foremost attitude, they'd say "screw your idea, we can make an extra 150 yen per unit". as the translation says "Generally speaking for the foreign version, achieving the internal costs was number one".
remember the question was:
In regards to the domestic version, there were some requested points from you (Hasui), ".
answer says "in the beginning he(Yuki) listened to/asked my opinions." So Hasui laid out what was going on with his Hasbro commissioned design, Yuki thought hrrm, I think we can work in those extra gimmicks, and pushed for the project to be done that way. Budget still a priority, attitude different, better weapons, extra joints, a spiffy visor and we look on in envy. Hell I, or others, would've have paid $5 -10 extra for the stuff in the UW version… Some nuts (including me) are considering importing that thing for a way bigger up price than $5-10, why wouldn't Hasbro say, "that's a great idea Shogo, it'll cost a bit more but maybe we'll retail at $160, give you the extra room to make the better toy, and we'll make an extra couple dollars". Sure, us adult collectors are kinda crazy, but think there's a lot of parents out there thinking "well I'll pay $150 plus tax to get a toy for my kid, but $160? oh now that's just crazy talk". Hasui's design was super doable, he met their part limit with just the cons, all he needed was a bit more just for weapons. No joints, at most snap together assembly, freaking weapons, instead he went back and reworked the transformation to make partsforming weapons.
Two toy companies, producing basically the same product, both looking to make a strong profit, one being more inflexible on budget than the other. Opportunity to make an impressive toy more impressive by a noticeable amount with an all inclusive combination/transformation gone because this was Hasbro's project to start with, so Hasui needed to meet their specs first. TT likely couldn't have produced his original design with UW as it probably would have affected the entire arm transformation scheme from the finished product/molds used for CW. So I'm mourning the lost opportunity here, because like most people commenting, I'll agree that this is the closest we'll get to a TT MP Devastator for a long time, and the design was actually that much better before the budget axe, not scalpel, cut in.
JT-bob
I don't understand this point. Neither Hasbro nor Takaratomy are in the business of giving away money. Hasbro had 2 requirements: make it 17.7"/45cm tall, make it come in under X budget. What's wrong with that? That's the business end of things, without the business end we'd have a single wave of great toys and then no more toys at all because it wouldn't be profitable to do so.
Every part not only costs more on its own but requires assembly, assembly costs quite a bit of money. And we're not talking about a little Deluxe figure here, we're talking about a massive Titan with significantly more expensive shipping costs that has to be sent nearly halfway around the world to get to Hasbro's hands, of course they're going to be more limited at the budget than Takara who only has to ship it across the East China Sea, 900 miles as opposed to 6500 miles to the port of LA. And even with that, it's not like Takara included all those fold-out parts that are partsformed-on with the Hasbro release, they also recognized that they have a budget to meet, they just have more leeway due to a favorable local audience and less impact from shipping.
Bountyan
I put this in the same category as CW/Legends Megatron. It's an oversized CHUG toy with some MP qualities. But I don't consider it a MP.
GR1ML0CK
They still look awesome standing together.
WildBill
I'm in 100% agreement with you here. There's still lots of ground to cover in terms of possibilities for the Masterpiece line and I think what Hasui has done with this Devastator will definitely help the people he reports to take combiner talk a bit more seriously when it invariably comes about. I'm sure if Unite Warriors proves to be popular then that too might inform Takara's decision making to a certain (if limited) extent.
Deruji, thanks for the translation!
Wheeljack_Prime
Devy himself might be an MP as far as intent goes, but the individual constructions sure ain't.
Shin Densetsu
I see it as his "rough draft". It's not his absolute, final say of how an MP Devastator would look, but it's his way of showing TakaraTomy the potential of MP combiners. It's like showing how they can be built, then built upon from there. Like he can say "hey guys remember how we've thought of MP combiners? Well think of this…..but better….".
So I don't think we will see an MP Devastator in the near future but I think MP combiners have a higher chance of getting greenlit than not.
Monari
So this is basically as close to MP Devastator as we'll get eh?
That's fine. Between the Takara version and the 3rd party upgrades on the way, i'm satisfied, and I have no doubt it'll look amazing on my MP shelf.
merphul
Well, until they're done making real car autobots, I didn't expect TT to start in on combiners for the MP line… so I was thinking several years into the future anyway.
I hate the line where he said coming in at cost was number 1. I get that cost is important, but the absolute lack of flexibility is so dumb when Hasbro says they want to deliver a "fan" experience. He had a no partsforming design, but had to scrap it because they wouldn't spring for a 8-10 extra pieces to make weapons. and then TT was all, hey go ahead and add some extra parts Yuki, throw in more articulation, add a visor, put some more paint on the hubcaps, because the fans will love it!
also, he confirms he had previously planned out some MP Devastator elements, and people called me crazy when I said I was almost certain he had most of MP Bruticus (one of his favorite characters) already designed
Given that we get 4-5 MP releases every year which a lot of us buy every one of (and then there's the crazy doubles people), and looking at how the 3P's have sold combiners for $400 or more if you get upgrade kits, it shows the draw to fans for being a combiner. it's no issue to actually SELL a 5-6 team combiner to the fandom for say $80 a unit retail (which is more than TT charges for domestic MP's). And hell, if you own one MP combiner, you just HAVE to get one for the opposite side to display him against, so these things would absolutely sell themselves twice over. You telling me that if you bought MP Menasor and then MP Superion comes along a year later you could convince yourself that you DIDN'T need an MP Autobot Gestalt to go head to head with your Menasor? The market would trip over itself to get in preorders
HOWEVER the obstacle with TT management is that out of the 4-5 MP's they give us a year now, typically we get redecoes or retools which keeps their cost down. Until they're willing to take a slightly smaller profit per unit we won't see an MP combiner. But if they pulled the trigger I doubt they'd actually make less money as an MP combiner would sell like crazy, if they produced more units there's zero chance they wouldn't get soaked up by the market. But management is thinking small potatoes and being tight fisted. Sure they'll spring for extra parts for UW Devastator but let Hasui experiment with his Bruticus design? oh yeah that's so wild and crazy, but at least they're not Hasbro crazy with the 4th MP-11 redeco in as many years.
Underwear
Dean if you need just check out some of the awesome shots taken by TCracker of CW Devy with the other MPs. You WILL be convinced.
Dean ML
Damn – hard to argue with that! Still need to think about it…
This is what gets me. I love transforming them and displaying them in different modes and I just wouldn't want to throw the individual bots on the shelf. Even with TT's improvements, I still see a lot of hollow limbs, no hand/wrist articulation, or ankle tilts, all things I expect in a voyager size MP. On the other hand, Devastator looks GREAT… Maybe someone could convince me with some great Devastator poses with other MPs?
HotRhinoximus86
Thanks, Deruji!
I've been waiting for an interview to pop up since I heard about CW Devastator, and waiting anxiously since it was revealed Hasui was the designer! Thanks, again, for the excellent translation!
I'm glad to get the CW version only Hasui worked on – that's such a cool opportunity in corporate Toy Design! I didn't even mind the black hands, since it's all about a balance, and I feel like that balance is a bit un-balanced in the UW version. Not that it isn't obviously nicer – just, not as balanced.
Love the detailing on the combined form; I don't need no paint apps!