TFW is here to bring you more news from SDCC 2015 with coverage of the Women in Transformers panel!
“Women of Transformers
From Windblade and Arcee to Strongarm and the brand-new Combiner making her debut at SDCC, female Transformers characters have finally gotten their due; but behind the page and in fandom, even bigger changes have been happening. Panelists include Transformers comics writers Mairghread Scott and Georgia Ball, artists Corin Howell and Sara Pitre-Durocher, Hasbro’s Sarah Carroll, and special guests.”
See the details after the break and periodically reload for the latest updates, courtesy of John Barber himself!
Key points from the panel – a new ongoing Transformers comic is coming in March 2016, titled Transformers Till All Are One, by Mairghread Scott and Sara Pitre-Durocher! Windblade Volume 2 will conclude with issue #7, but she will feature in the new book.
• Panel starting!
• Panelists: Mairghread Scott (writer on Windblade, Combiner Wars, Combiner Hunters, Prime, and Robots in Disguise), Corin Howell (artist on Windblade and Combiner Wars), Georgia Ball (writer on Robots in Disguise), Sarah Carrol (Hasbro Transformers Global Brand Marketing), Sara Pitre-Durocher (artist on Combiner Hunters), moderated by Roaslind Morehead
• Windblade Volume 2 ending with issue #7
• New ongoing series announcement!
• TRANSFORMERS TILL ALL ARE ONE
• Coming March 2016
• Written by Mairghread Scott
• Art by Sara Pitre-Durocher
• Will still feature Windblade
• Ends Windblade Volume 2
• Takes place on Cybertron
• Some characters will return
• Will be set in an iconic city
• No other details, more to come later
• General chit-chat now
• Panelists were introduced to Transformes by watching/reading the older fiction
• Talking about how they had to do world-building for Windblade
• Windblade was intended to be a “gateway series” for newer fans
• Talking about inspirations, different body types, character designs, and cities
• Character designs are intended to reflect who they are as a character and where they come from
• Victorion – they see it as an opportunity to expand the universe
• Many brands target a specific gender, but they still try and include the opposite gender
• Windblade series was focused on Windblade herself, didn’t have time to feature the rest of the cast that much
• Emphasis on gender in the franchise is to help the audience relate to the characters
• Talking about the gender debate in the fandom, and the use of pronouns. Again, they’re used to help the audience relate to the characters
• Victorion will feature in different things
• A new female Decepticon will be introduced in the future
• Fans requesting the gender to be female – happened with Windblade and now Victorion, fathers have been asking for more female Transformers to appeal to their daughters
• Victorion is a big, strong bot with many sides to her personality
• Favorite parts of creating the comics – composition, inking, working as a team, getting fan feedback
• Joke that they’d like more sleep, but the sacrifices are worth it
• Says it’s a challenge to get diversity into the brand, but the TF franchise in its current state has a lot more diversity compared to other franchises
• Says Barber took a chance putting the ladies on the comics
• Beast Wars issue/designs by Howell – Cheetor, Dinobot, Manta Ray, Sonar, Airazor, Tigatron, possibly Blackarachnia (might be part of a faction if she appears), will also be water buffalo/dragonfly beastformers
• Talking about relationships – Ironhide/Chromia, Tigatron/Airazor
• May be partly inspired by Jurassic World, as Howell saw the movie before working on the script
• Alien planet, so the beast modes may look a bit different
• (Various pieces of comic art featuring female Transformers such as Arcee, Windblade, Chromia, Nautica, Victorion, Elita One, Strongarm, etc. were shown throughout the panel)
• Done.
SMOG
That's not what was being argued. You said that a new male character wouldn't be subject to "silly" criticisms like exceptionalist hyperbole. Drift is just one rather obvious example to the contrary.
And I don't think that gender specifically is at issue with most of the criticisms of Victorion, though it does factor into some of the discourse surrounding the character (and of course, gender in Transformers is still far from being a sorted out issue, for a bunch of reasons).
For example, some people are even annoyed because Victorion doesn't look "feminine" enough for them, which I think is a whole different issue here… a case of being pro-fembot and somewhat sexist at the same time. But I think that mainly the negativity here hinges around people being (in my case only passingly) cynical about how she seems to be presented as a character and narrative device.
The fact that the toy is ugly as sin doesnt' help, but again…I think that's a whole other issue.
Actually, other examples were provided. Simply disregarding any argument that ran counter to your points doesn't mean that those arguments weren't made.
Drift, Windblade, Rung, Turmoil, the DJD, Alpha Bravo/Offroad/Rook, etc… they all came with a backlash, despite being largely male-identified… which kind of disrupts the causality you were trying to create there.
In fact, you can probably look at just about any time a new character has been heralded or handed even a moderate spotlight, and see the same misgivings playing out. Even established characters tend to catch flak when it seems like a writer is treating them like a "pet" character. When Hasbro throws their weight behind a new character as a promotion, it tends to come with even more hype, so it's not surprising that "new" characters (ones getting a lot of attention, and perceived as not having "paid their dues" or whatever) catch even more skepticism.
And some people would rather project biases on to others to… well, wait that's pretty much just what you said above… and I'd say that it actually applies to you in this instance. Whenever someone says something disagreeable, responding by claiming that it's due to their sexism is a rather poor discursive technique. I rather like you FFG, but I think you're out of line on this one.
Ultimately, it was an off-hand comment by someone on the panel about Victorion having a "many sided personality" or whatever. I just thought it was funny that they were trying to push the "this is a deep character" routine on a combiner. They could have said "she's a big, strong bot" and left it at that… and then gone on to say something about the team that makes up Victorion. I think there's a hint of exceptionalism there, feeling like they really have to "justify" this big female character… and probably moreso because it's a fembot combiner.
Of course, they'd probably have an easier time of it if they had come up with a smart, consistent, in-fiction way to re/integrate female TFs into the IDW universe ages ago… instead of ducking around the subject. It only prolongs the sense of controversy.
I guess we'll see, eh?
Oh sure, but I'm reasonably certain that even 'successful' mergers like Predaking or Piranacon would never be advertised as "having many sides to their personality".
zmog
Haywired
Probably because their only hobby is to kill things, just every one of them gives it a different spin. So Predaking is all about killing things for the sake of killing. And, really, for what a combiner is really needed if not for combat? It isn't really good for anything else, being intelligent or not.
Neh, I was thinking about having Slipstream/Blackarachnia/Nightbird who will have a new toy instead of maybe having Airachnid who has no new toy.
This one time "to sell toys" would be only for the best.
Even a slight chance at having Airachnid… No. Just no. It's too scary to think about it.
Especially since her toys sucked anyway.
Somehow the only good thing about her, the look, was turned into a quite ugly figures.
soundwaverulls
From the sounds of it, the conflict won't be between factions but entire worlds, so at the very least, we won't have to worry about the Predacons being filled with expendables as neither faction exists. Although, it would still be nice to see more Predacons simply because they were great characters in BW.
femmebotfangirl
At no point was Drifts gender brought into it. Not even once. Also one example is not plenty of evidence to the contrary. The only reason it gets old for some people is they don't want to confront their biases and would rather pretend they don't exist and its other people causing trouble
SMOG
Specifically, Piranacon was the Combiner that was "too well integrated" due to the shared interests of the component characters. Of course, that lead to an entirely different kind of dysfunction, where he basically had a totally obsessive, one-track mind… to the degree that he would actually grind to a halt before he would even refuel.
With Predaking, I never quite understood the synthesis, since his components are actually pretty different, and only two of them seem to be what I would call "real hunters". The other 3 are just berserkers.
Though maybe that's how Predaking works… Divebomb and Razorclaw have just enough self-restraint to hold the others in check, who are basically just in a constant state of "KILL! MAIM! DESTROY!"… which explains why Predaking is always on a razor's edge, and on the verge of targeting even his own allies. By any sane measure, Predaking is NOT a "well-adjusted or intelligent" combiner… he's just dysfunctional in such a way that makes him utterly terrifyingly efficient as a killing machine.
Well, in IDW I guess they have some interpersonal baggage. Going by their original personalities, the problem is that they're all slow, violent, stubborn, with a disrespect for authority… which means that a combined version would just be all those things to an extreme degree. Snarl's sulking could cause lapses, Sludge's stupidity brings down their already low average, Slag's belligerence causes him to rebel against Grimlock's authority, etc… I suspect they'd be as screwed up as any combiner.
Well, they sure haven't sold me on Victorion as a purchase. Individually, I don't mind the remolds, but the colours, the duplication of the helicopter mold, and the fact that they come in a gift set pretty much kills any enthusiasm I have for them. Maybe if they get repainted as new characters with not-eye-lacerating decos down the road though…
zmog
darkspellmaster
So we get Dinobot, Cheetor, but no Primal, Inferno, Terrorsaur? Yay for at least two of my faves coming back. So Manta Ray over Depth Charge? I would hope that he does show up, although I'm a bit worried at the balance with the cast here so far: I'm only reading Two preds – if the dragonfly turns out to be either Sky shadow or Jetstorm, and several Maximals. Then there's the whole Vs Velocitron. Are we getting Override involved in this? That would be rather nice to have a race with her involved.
MelficeCyrum
Honestly, the presumption that "if this were a new male character or characters, no one would be this critical" is starting to become a rather old and hollow argument. Mostly because there's plenty of proof to the contrary.
Drift was taken apart for his writing early on. Even Star Saber's 180 degree personality shift was met with a fair bit of criticism. So to presuppose that if this combiner was made up of male characters no-one would bat an eye has nothing to stand on.
And Smog I think is exactly right, being skeptical and suspicious of them trying to sell/hype up this new combiner and the team is a perfectly legitimate response. Considering how previous stuff was sold up and didn't really meet the hype?
Drift was heavily hyped and actively turned the fandom against the character for the poor writing. Windblade (the first mini) was heavily sold up, and while the art was fantastic, the story met with mixed reviews and ended up a little underwhelming. Dark Cybertron was hyped quite a bit and was messy as hell, narratively speaking. Combiner Wars was hyped even more and was incredibly lukewarm overall (though it had some incredible moments).
So people being a little apprehensive of new stuff being sold as "awesome" is a completely legitimate stance.
And honestly? If you want to keep claiming this double-standard of criticism guy characters face vs criticism girl characters face, how about for the next fanpoll we get a completely new male character and see how the fandom reacts. Because right now nothing we've seen is new. Everyone being introduced is existing characters modified for the the current setting.
Haywired
Also, it's worth remembering that Predaking's working personality comes mostly from all Predacons being a very likeminded individuals. So he's relatively "sane" for a combiner not because of having a complicated and multi-faceted components to his personality, but because of something quite the opposite.
Hmm, I think this is why IDW Dinobots could work as a combiner one day. Provided the rest of them can get past their disagreements with Grimlock.
Yeah, I do hope this time "to sell toys" will prevail.
Rakzo
I'm betting that it will be Slipstream.
SMOG
Or at least, in MTMTE he is (a deconstruction).
In most other forms of the fiction, he pretty much IS the "young hero/future king/chosen one" archetype. There's room for that kind of stereotype, because it does have a long history… but I'm glad we're getting Roberts doing a sort of deconstruction of Rodimus, rather than just running with his schtick earnestly.
zmog
SMOG
Which is not necessarily the case… but I think that one reason why there is more debate surrounding "female" characters is because there is a social politic involved, and that often complicates the way characters are presented. In this particular case, I suspect that, in introducing a new "male" combiner, the Hasbro/IDW party line wouldn't be trying to sell us on the idea of how deep and multi-faceted they are. There is a degree here of compensation, assuring us that this character is "worthwhile" and special based on different values.
Like I said, a lot of that is still part of the hype, which I always sort of roll my eyes at. In the case of Victorion, there is just that additional wrinkle. I'm certainly not attacking her raison d'etre… rather I'm sort of noting cynically how she is presumed to NEED a raison d'etre, beyond what is normal for the character type.
Obviously it gets awkward, because we are in the situation where female characters in TF is still exceptional, yet we are also trying to get away from that exceptionalism.
That's a pretty dumb reason to complain about Victorion obviously, since there are no jets in her team at all. In fact, what I like about the choice of molds was that it sidestepped the tired old "agile/aerodynamic" argument for fembots designs. So far, her design seems to hold fairly consistently to a toyetic and conventional Cybertronian physicality… rather than being designed solely around looking "feminine" (according to a mostly false social measure). It is the one silver lining to this figure being all remolds of existing CW figures.
In that sense, I think Victorion is a triumph against prescribed gender norms (so far)… far more than Windblade's design ever was. I hope that continues forward.
It's just too bad that she has a hideously ugly deco, and most of the names they chose are super-lame. I guess you can't have everything.
Well, actually IDW has been rather inconsistent at depicting Combiner intelligence or social interactivity. I think that historically, Combiners are almost ALL dumb and slow, or at the very least suffering from some critical dysfunction (Superion has zero personality, Computron has no control over assigning priorities, Defensor spaces out, Bruticus has no personal initiative). The only real exception is Predaking, who is basically just a giant bug zapper, lashing out at anything that moves. But he's good at it, at least.
So yeah, I'd like it if they held to that for the sake of tradition, rather than exceptionalizing Victorion. And while we're on the subject, I like the little bits of personality that have been hinted at in the Combiners, but I'm really not liking the way the combined form has asserted itself over the individual characters. If I had to choose between Devastator and the Constructicons as individual characters, or Bruticus and the Combaticons, etc… I will choose the individuals every damn time. Combining is a toyetic gimmick, and it's cool… but it doesn't necessarily make for better stories, which is why the Combiner Wars event was kind of lame to begin with.
Nope… that's just not true. If they introduce a Computron who isn't horribly hobbled by his particular neurotic issues, I will complain. We've already seen how Drift took a very long road to peoples' hearts. Similarly, many fans were ambivalent about Rung for similar reasons. And I've certainly been a critic of Turmoil, and how Barber at one point tried to frame him as a "fan favourite" villain, when in fact, he was a literally worthless throwaway baddie.
But yes… as I said earlier, there is an extra dynamic at work with Victorion… and I hope it doesn't lapse into pandering. I was rather worried that Windblade would go that way, but IDW managed to handle her mostly alright (even if she is a bit dull as a protagonist)… so maybe it'll be fine.
I think the best route though, is to push the team as characters, rather than push the combiner as a character. If they'd given us a 2-parter or something that introduced them to us as central characters… gave us an insight into who they are… then maybe they'd have charmed us like the Scavengers, and we'd remember their names.
Maybe that'll still happen though…
DUDE… again, I think this is a fallacy. I don't know why you are so convinced that this disparity lurks in everyone, but it's a bit preposterous that you are saying these things with any degree of confidence.
When something is introduced as a toy tie-in, honestly I don't feel that we get the best writing out of it. I have no particular reason to be excited about Victorion… no more than if it was a new "male" combiner that was being dropped on us with similar rhetoric. My cynicism would be equal-opportunity, I assure you.
But I also feel that the assurances that she will be a "smart" or "deep" character seem to proceed out of a well-meaning but patronizing female exceptionalism. It's simply my wry observation on how the gender politic still plays a role here. I don't know if it will carry forward into the writing… but as publicity I feel it's a lame throwaway bit of fluff, and I'd rather that we don't get any super-duper-Poochy combiners of any gender, really.
But if the "female" combiner ends up being the one combiner who is a well-adjusted smartie-pants, then I think that would just drop us back into old stereotype territory, where female characters are defined by their gender-typed differences and expectations (ie: she is a 'female' Combiner, therefore she must somehow exhibit her inherent 'difference' along accepted tropes). I think that, should that become the case, it would make for some valid criticism.
zmog
ZeroiaSD
She wouldn't exactly be a new con, would she?
Even if she shows up, I doubt it'll be this one.
Hm, the female con ranks do need filling more than autobot or neutral…. Nickle and the ones from animated RiD are nice recent additions, but the autobots have sooo many new ones!
Rodimus Prime
Er… Rodimus isn't a Mary Sue. He's actually a deconstruction of the standard "young hero."
Anyhow, some people will bash on fembots no matter what. I'd rather that they ignore those people than worry about proving them wrong.
Haywired
Oh, also:
Considering how much stuff from the Aligned continuity seems to be placed into IDWverse…
I really hope this will NOT be Airachnid.
There are soo many female Cons in canon to pick from, and pretty much everyone's better than her.
/panicmode ON
Murasame
Maybe most people just overthink everything. I don't think about it. I take it as it comes.
kaijuguy19
While most people have different reasons for not liking certain fembot characters some do sadly bash on them for silly reasons. What makes Lil Formers funny was that it also had a comic featuring Rodimus telling Windblade about what kind of character he's famous for to which Windblade replied. "And they say I'm the Mary Su." It's like fembots have a lot to prove when maybe they don't have to prove anything huge in order to be accepted. Again I don't really care if Vicotrion's mart or not just as long as the comics do a good ob making her good and giving people a reason to like them.
Rodimus Prime
I don't know, as I don't read that comic. If anything, WB strikes me more as a purity-sue.
Even Superion has his limits, and Optimus Maximus is just a bad idea all around, IMO. Like I said, it depends on if they can pull it off.
There's so much wrong here. First of all, he's talking about how they have built her up since her introduction, and the introduction in general. It's perfectly valid for us to discuss the characters revelation and the information that they have provided us so far.
Second of all, please cut out the whole "no one would say this if it were male" schtick. That is not true. In fact, I already pointed out proof of this, and the fact that IDW is responsible for both characters makes it a valid concern. Many of us here were lambasting Drift when they introduced him. You cannot make it out that it's all about the gender when we have been just as vocal about male original characters. If the combiners were male, I'd still voice concern because it just sounds bad.
There is no need to demonize people as sexist just because they don't have the same reaction as you do.
femmebotfangirl
The thing that really annoys me about the whole 'oh my god a jet fembot how stereotypical' is that there are hardly any and like a thousand fucking male jets. In fact of the current regularly appearing fembots (Windblade, Chromia, Nautica, Arcee, Strongarm) there is only one jet vs 2 cars. There are literally more Seekers than regularly appearing fembot characters.
People say its because its a popular OC but its a popular OC BECAUSE THERE ARE SO FEW OFFICIAL ONES. It's just the stupidest logic.
And yeah there are other smart Combiners already, and we've already had it established that intelligence is linked to how unified the team is so its not a stretch at all to have Victorion be more articulate than the average Combiner at present. If it were Computron or even a new male combiner we wouldn't even be having this conversation, but because its a fembot everyone is extra sensitive to anything she might actually be good at its insane.
Dude we don't even have their introduction comic yet, you can't go saying they are introducing them wrong when you haven't seen their introduction. In the preview panels we see them separate so for all we know they will be introduced as a team as much as a Combiner. Like I said no one would even consider it an issue that it was a smarter Combiner if it were male, its the silliest complaint.
ZeroiaSD
Smog, that strikes me as a poor complaint. Does any new character ever *not* get sold up?
Yet people complain so much more when female characters are…
Haywired
Yeah, it's not like Slipstream and Lyzack weren't both jets and femformers long before WB…
I'd say that having a female TF turning into jet or bike is a kind of an obvious choice these days.
And that's basically the only thing I'm really concerned with Victorion, especially when this team will be inserted into comic books and cartoons.
There are like five new characters, every single one of them with a potential for her own quirks and personality, yet hype is about their combined battle mode.
I suppose it is justified from the toy angle, it will be sold as a one set and likely displayed in their joint mode, but in comic books…
Can't say I'm ever thrilled with combiners as characters. It was always individual team members who were more interesting to me. Swindle, Breakdown.
I hope IDW writers will tune down the combiner and focus more on team characters.
It's boring enough with First Aid promoted to being a faceless combiner limb.